Live data from Hacker News

U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

reuters.com

461–470 of 651 posts

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#461
post #203
post #189

Is anyone working on a microkernel design for privacy-sensitive devices (like phones) that would prevent outright this class of kernel-level arbitrary code execution exploits? We're stuck with iOS and Android for the foreseeable future, but is there hope that we'll get this right some day? Actually, would a microkernel design even be sufficient? Given that hackers exploit deserialization, memory safety, and variable…

Google is, with Fuchsia: https://fuchsia.dev

What are they doing?

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#462
post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're both somewhat vague phrases that are heavily context-dependent and have somewhat different connotations, but yes. There's nothing wrong with the phrase "deep state". If you're concerned about associations with Trump (which I think you should not be), you can use a former Obama official's favored term, "the blob". Both, and many other similar phrases, are common in the foreign policy literature. I think the fi…

Regardless of the terminology, the supposed "deep state" is often a fill-in for one's own personal misunderstanding of institutional momentum and basic functions of the government. "The Government" isn't really a single institution, but a surprisingly loose collection of various institutions that all have some level of momentum guiding the direction they move in. It's critical to note that these institutions may have…

"Deep state" is used extremely often to mean something non-centralized, and in a sense, aligned with what you describe as "a surprisingly loose collection of various institutions that all have some level of momentum". The reason it's a useful phrase is that much of that momentum was built in completely undemocratic and unaccountable ways, by groups that are illegitimately secretive and deceptive in their activities, and who feel free to use extreme means such as torture and terrorism.

It's a very imprecise term covering bureaucratic norms and blindspots, to unsanctioned domestic and international terrorism, so it's not really useful except as shorthand with ideological bedfellows, so-to-speak, and you're right that it's often used to mean "the government guys I don't like but am too lazy/ill-informed to describe". But OP mentioned Gladio -- I think that's context enough for this thread. Do some reading on the topic (beyond Wikipedia) if you haven't already, and you might get a sense of what this non-centralized deep state can do.

And I didn't make it clear, but I brought up the North et al "shadow government" as an example far on the small-scale end of the spectrum of meaning of "deep state/shadow government". It _was_ a centralized shadowy cabal doing a now-documented conspiracy. People argue about how much authority they "seized" and how much was delegated by Reagan (and how much capacity he had to delegate much of anything), but regardless, it was not democratic to illegal go around Congress. What I've described as the "deep state" is the more common usage, and it's on the "amorphous, non-centralized, competing institutions, largely free of any democratic accountability" end.

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're both somewhat vague phrases that are heavily context-dependent and have somewhat different connotations, but yes. There's nothing wrong with the phrase "deep state". If you're concerned about associations with Trump (which I think you should not be), you can use a former Obama official's favored term, "the blob". Both, and many other similar phrases, are common in the foreign policy literature. I think the fi…

> There's nothing wrong with the phrase "deep state". If you're concerned about associations with Trump (which I think you should not be), you can use a former Obama official's favored term, "the blob". To me, 'deep state' implies an illegal conspiracy against democracy. 'The blob' is a large organization that is hard to change, which describes every such organization. Ask an executive at a Fortune 500 company about…

> To me, 'deep state' implies an illegal conspiracy against democracy.

This is a very new, post-Trump/QAnon interpretation. The “deep state” has, for at least many decades prior, meant those aspects of government which persist from administration to administration, largely unaffected by those in power. E.g. the CIA keeps doing its thing regardless of whether a Democrat or Republican is in office.

Now in as much as these aspects of government are controlled by unelected officials who are willing to work against the elected representatives (think: J Edgar Hoover), that constitutes a shadow government.

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but it is not Francisco Partners now so it appears there is no "big-time American fund" involved and the British one appears to want to get rid of its stake.

From the side-lines this thread looks like: - md: X and Y are deeply involved in this company - yiu: No they are not. X cleanly destroyed all the papers and officially ask we don’t talk about them. Y is a bit late but will finish cuting ties in a minute now.

This implication is about who would care if NSO gets shut down. For that, current investors are what is relevant. If someone already divested they don’t care and wouldn’t pull strings to keep the company around.

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Government employees are only human after all This weekend I was traveling and I put the stray $20 from my pocket in the bin at the TSA checkpoint. An agent quickly pulled it out and handed it back to me. He then said "a lot of good people work here, but they're still human". It's kind of wild that we endure that level of complacency here in the States.

That's a pretty weird statement, if one of his colleagues would swipe cash that travelers put in the bins then they should fire their ass and move them to the 'not good people' column. Stealing isn't something that defines you as human.

I don't think he has the power to fire his colleagues. I think that's reading too much into it, for a lot of people 20 is a lot and for a lot of people you just don't trust others with stray cash laying around. It doesn't say much about humans, except that a small portion of people are willing to commit crime and that's why we have to protect ourselves

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're both somewhat vague phrases that are heavily context-dependent and have somewhat different connotations, but yes. There's nothing wrong with the phrase "deep state". If you're concerned about associations with Trump (which I think you should not be), you can use a former Obama official's favored term, "the blob". Both, and many other similar phrases, are common in the foreign policy literature. I think the fi…

> There's nothing wrong with the phrase "deep state". If you're concerned about associations with Trump (which I think you should not be), you can use a former Obama official's favored term, "the blob". To me, 'deep state' implies an illegal conspiracy against democracy. 'The blob' is a large organization that is hard to change, which describes every such organization. Ask an executive at a Fortune 500 company about…

If you can operate without democratic control and do things that would be illegal for anyone else to do, are you an "illegal conspiracy against democracy"? I think every intelligent US president since Eisenhower (which makes sense, as the relevant institutions largely came into being after WW2) has recognized that such a thing exists, with varying degrees of openness (Eisenhower), paranoia (Nixon), and glee (HW Bush).

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#467
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Implying that Israeli spying on the US is some fringe "shadow government" sub-group of the Israeli government is strange given a long, long history of high profile Israeli spying incidents against the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Franklin_espionage_sc... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben-Ami_Kadish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Parsons_(rocket_engineer…

Why would the tail wag the dog? America benefits so much from all the R&D (in e.g. encryption) that can't happen on US soil. They are not our enemy in any way :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Report_to_the_Secretary_on_the... https://www.nybooks.com/articles/2001/09/20/the-truth-about-...

> Why would the tail wag the dog? America benefits so much from all the R&D (in e.g. encryption) that can't happen on US soil.

As far as I know there are few (if any) restrictions on encryption R&D (and even publication) in the US.

What is restricted (due to encryption being classed as a 'munition') is the export of robust encryption products to specific countries.

Broadly speaking, circumventing the export controls wouldn't be in the interest of the US Intelligence Community, unless those products have backdoors or vulnerabilities known to the IC.

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not attacking NATO. I'm saying the U.S is subsidizing Europe's defense in the trillions (if we count since WW2 end). It could be beneficial to the U.S, or not. I'm only saying U.S aid to Israel is not unique and is peanuts compared to the NATO subsidy. People here like saying they are super focused on Israel because of the 3 billion annual subsidy the U.S gives to Israel. I call bullshit on that.

The NATO relationship effectively turns Europe into vassal states - we don't have German or French bases on US soil, only the US gets that out of NATO. So it's a 'subsidy' only in the sense that the US is protecting its property. People get angry about the Israel aid not because of the volume of funding, but because of the human rights/colonialism problems that the US subsidizes. I personally feel that way, but at th…

> I believe the purpose of keeping Israel there

Here's part of the problem. Does it make sense to you Israel just disappears? Sounds like it from what you're saying. Isn't it weird though - how many nation states do you think should vanish?

> but because of the human rights/colonialism problems

If Western societies really wanted the conflict to dissolve they wouldn't keep encouraging the Palestinians to "return" to their home (75 years after). Western societies keep the conflict alive. So it makes me think human rights issues isn't really the thing here.

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#469
post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point of your comment is wrong. Israel may be considered a democracy, but only for the so-called "chosen people"; This so-called democracy which is based on racial purity and militarism is in fact a form of fascism, and not a democracy in any way. And the main reason for some of the countries in the middle east to become enemies of the US is the blind support of US for the Israel to occupy the land of Pales…

Is America not a democracy because Canadian citizens and Mexican citizens that aren't also American citizens can't vote in elections?

Arguably, yes. Or at least USA are lacking in universal suffrage while they don’t allow long time residents to vote because they lack citizenship.

This is actually a fault in quite a lot of western democracies but USA is actually worse at this the the average democracy. Contrary to most European democracies, foreign citizens are not even allowed to vote in primaries or local elections in the USA.

Off course USA has more problems with how they grant voting rights the just the lack of rights to vote for foreigners, this includes prisoners in many states, but also access to voting and voting registration, as well as disproportionate representation from election outcomes which reflects actual ballot counts poorly. All of this adds to make the USA a rather lacking in democracy.

Re: U.S. State Department phones hacked with Israeli company spyware

#470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but it is not Francisco Partners now so it appears there is no "big-time American fund" involved and the British one appears to want to get rid of its stake.

From the side-lines this thread looks like: - md: X and Y are deeply involved in this company - yiu: No they are not. X cleanly destroyed all the papers and officially ask we don’t talk about them. Y is a bit late but will finish cuting ties in a minute now.

Agreed. I find many of the responses unconvincing. They are in many ways exactly what you'd expect. Sure that doesn't prove anything directly, but on these matters having direct and public proof is the exception not the rule.
Post reply on HN