Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#871

Post by fuzzythinker » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 6:05 AM UTC

serial_dev wrote: post #271

bijant wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only are they forcing the unvaccinated to get the shot, they are also forcing everyone who is fully vaccinated to get booster shots every 6 months for the indefinite future. When the vaccines were first introduced their validity was fixed at 12 months and their was talk about extending it ("because they are so incredibly effective").

Not sure what to say without being labeled an anti vaxxer... I was very sick for a week after each shot. I'm 30, I work from home, I work out, I'm lean and only go out when running in the forest and buy food. I can't possibly know what would happen if I caught covid, but I wish the vaccination (I'm already vaxxed, but I mean the boosters) was my choice. With my reaction to the vaccines, it's two weeks a year guarante…

If you took Moderna or J&J, it's possible the initial high dosage (100mg for Moderna) is the main cause. Their booster is now 50mg and Pfizer's is 30mg. If you did take the lower dosage, there's still hope that newer ones from Novavax or Inovio coming out later which is very different from MRNA vaccines won't produce so much side effects on you.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#872

Post by TheRealNGenius » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 6:08 AM UTC

bruce343434 wrote: post #702

ikrenji wrote: post #692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no thank you. you let your body be ravaged by an exotic viral disease from asian bats. I will take my booster

Would it be less bad if the virus was bred on Dutch grounds by another animal? Otherwise I am not sure what your are implying or why you bring it up.

What if the virus was man-made from a lab? Big Pharma, the ones who have the most to gain from selling vaccines, are also the ones most capable of genetically engineering modified viruses. This is just a thought that I've had in the back of my head, and I'm not saying that this is the case, since the ethical implications of this would be severe. But I do often hear in media that tech companies prioritize profits over people...

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#873

Post by serial_dev » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 6:11 AM UTC

fuzzythinker wrote: post #871

serial_dev wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what to say without being labeled an anti vaxxer... I was very sick for a week after each shot. I'm 30, I work from home, I work out, I'm lean and only go out when running in the forest and buy food. I can't possibly know what would happen if I caught covid, but I wish the vaccination (I'm already vaxxed, but I mean the boosters) was my choice. With my reaction to the vaccines, it's two weeks a year guarante…

If you took Moderna or J&J, it's possible the initial high dosage (100mg for Moderna) is the main cause. Their booster is now 50mg and Pfizer's is 30mg. If you did take the lower dosage, there's still hope that newer ones from Novavax or Inovio coming out later which is very different from MRNA vaccines won't produce so much side effects on you.

Well, thank you for the encouraging words (though I didn't have the vaccines you mentioned)... I will get back to this comment and try to convince myself that you are 100% right, when the German government makes me an outlaw / outcast when they decide to go with the vaccine mandates, and I can't go shopping, to the gym, to restaurant...

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#874

Post by TheRealNGenius » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 6:25 AM UTC

dav_Oz wrote: post #607

I wonder as to how far the current crisis is used by 'machiavellian' power players to weaken civil liberties and constitutional rights as was the case with "9/11" to push something through like the "Patriot Act" with its wide ramifications for us all today. I understand the allure just for this damn pandemic, this state of global health emergency, to force everyone to take their jabs already. But even without the ima…

That's a good point that I've also been considering. It's easy to see how mandatory vaccination could serve as a stepping stone for simply more government overreach into peoples' lives.

First it's a mandatory vaccination against this one disease. Then, why not a mandatory vaccination against all diseases? Next, how about a mandatory serum that keeps you in peak physical condition for your entire life? And then at long last - the holy grail - we will eventually reach the point when a mandatory immortality serum is prescribed. This move would totally be in line with promoting the greater good, as surely death and suffering are undesirable no? And in a similar sense, many who are "vaccinated" will fail to comprehend why anyone in their right mind would choose to remain unvaccinated.

Governments of course would surely rejoice at having removed the first inevitability of life that hinders their collection of the second...

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#875

Post by TheRealNGenius » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 6:42 AM UTC

throwaway47292 wrote: post #251

rwaxm wrote: post #217

'"We have understood that the situation is very serious and that we want to take further measures in addition to those already taken," Merkel told reporters at Thursday's news conference. "The fourth wave must be broken and this has not yet been achieved," she added.' You do not need special measures. Florida and Sweden didn't have any and have the best graphs right now. Outbreaks stop by themselves. Of course, if yo…

in the netherlands they just implemented measures to shut down non essential things at 5pm.. that lead to gyms/restaurants/swimming pools PACKED with people.. half the space, twice the density. in the very same day they implemented the measures the cases stopped growing.. the fact that a scientist can recommend "lets shut down gyms at 5pm" instead of "lets make gyms 24/7" makes me distrust the whole corona committee…

It's not that hard to see why a scientist working for a Pharma company would recommend that, considering Pharma companies make money selling cures for ailments...

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#876

Post by TheRealNGenius » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 6:52 AM UTC

Solvitieg wrote: post #833

lorenzfx wrote: post #677

I'm surprised to find this many anti vaxxers on hn. I would have expected that the community was a lot more rational.

It's wild how we can be vaccinated with two doses and still be considered an anti-vaxxer. Is this not doublespeak?

Precisely. Simultaneously believing that you are free to do with your own body as you like, whilst also inflicting upon others a forced medical procedure in the name of the "greater good"

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#877

Post by i_don_t_know » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 6:53 AM UTC

nzk wrote: post #56

wsc981 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why you are voted down. This is very much true for The Netherlands as well. Ever since the year 2000, possibly before, ICU beds have been scaled down. Diederik Grommers, one member of the Dutch Outbreak Management Team (OMG) states: "it doesn't matter if you're vaccinated or not; 60% of the beds are occupied by vaccinated people; the problems we will encounter in the coming weeks are caused by the fact t…

Thanks, that was an interesting video. I had to rely on auto-translated subtitles but from the little Dutch I can understand, it seems like they got the gist across. Yeah, Germany has a ton of ICU beds in comparison, and yet, we're struggling exactly the same as any other country. I find it strange, too. In early 2020 I expected we'd see big differences between different countries based on ICU capacity, but we saw th…

The number of ICU beds may have been inflated. At the start of the pandemic, hospitals had to report available ICU beds, and they received money for the number of beds they reported. I know of two hospitals that reported all of their beds (the physical objects) when the intention of the law / regulation was to have only those beds reported that could be operated / staffed.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#878

Post by zZsFBVZ9bjdJd » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 6:53 AM UTC

umvi wrote: post #680

Somehow I think these super heavy handed measures toward covid are a big mistake. My opinion: - Remove all restrictions, let people assess their own risk tolerance and voluntarily follow country's health guidance (or not). - If ICUs start getting maxed out, implement bed rationing, with unvaccinated patients having lowest priority. - Tell everyone to go on with their lives and that covid is here to stay. There's no e…

Problem with this is that bed rationing is seen by many as unethical. Plus there are gray zones, you're putting young people in horrible moral conundrums on a day to day basis.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#879

Post by aaa_aaa » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 6:53 AM UTC

crooked-v wrote: post #115

fileeditview wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So true and not mentioned enough by the media. The fact that we lost more than 4000 ICU beds over last year (during the Corona pandemic!!) because of personnel shortage is mind-boggling. Instead of rewarding those who worked these horrible jobs and maybe attract new workers with better conditions (e.g. more holidays), better pay or tax reduction, our politicians did campaigning and ignored the upcoming winter. Now th…

With exponential spread, the actual number of ICU beds really doesn't matter, because whatever you've got will be overwhelmed across a similar timeframe anyway. The only way to actually fix the problem is to get the R-value below 1, which requires mass vaccinations.

There have never been a real shortage of ICU beds even in the worst days of Covid. Check stats, now situation is even better.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#880

Post by TheRealNGenius » Fri, Dec 03, 2021, 6:54 AM UTC

rich_sasha wrote: post #537

Is it, to some extent, a problem of naming and terminology? When vaccines were first introduced in the UK, there was a great deal of discussion about ethics of forcing people to get them. One really cool view was, of course you can’t force people to inject a chemical into their bodies. But if people choose not to get vaccinated, it’s on them to reduce the risk to others - ie basically subject themselves to lockdown.…

would a mask suffice? or how about staying 6ft apart?