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Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

cnn.com

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Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#851

Post by disambiguation »

ryan_lane wrote: post #781
native_samples wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with this claim is that vaccine fanatics spread vast amounts of misinformation themselves, and often rely on it for their core arguments. Just in this thread alone, we can find people saying: 1. Vaccines would let us wipe out COVID (wrong). 2. Even harsher lockdowns would let us wipe out COVID (wrong). 3. Vaccines stop people transmitting it (wrong). 4. Vaccinated people don't end up in ICU with COVID (wr…

You're taking extreme talking points on this and making it seem like it's the norm. Vaccines don't stop being from transmitting, but it reduces the length of infection by about 2 days, it drastically reduces the likelihood of infection, which drastically reduces the transmission rate, and recent studies have shown that it does also reduce the likelihood of transmission directly. Vaccinated people with breakthrough ca…

I think what he/she is saying is that there are fanatics on both sides, and platforms, parties, and people tend to side with one over the other when it aligns with their agenda. Trust and truth are the casualties.

The reasonable choice is to disallow all fanatics, but the world is too polarized on this topic. The center cannot hold.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#852

Post by spurgu »

snowwrestler wrote: post #848
serial_dev wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what to say without being labeled an anti vaxxer... I was very sick for a week after each shot. I'm 30, I work from home, I work out, I'm lean and only go out when running in the forest and buy food. I can't possibly know what would happen if I caught covid, but I wish the vaccination (I'm already vaxxed, but I mean the boosters) was my choice. With my reaction to the vaccines, it's two weeks a year guarante…

When you get a COVID vaccine you are getting COVID. That’s literally all a vaccine is: a copy of the disease you want protection against, so that your immune system can gear up to fight it. The only difference is that the vaccine will not multiply out of control in your body the way the live virus would. So it’s crazy to think that you’ll have “an even lower chance of getting sick from” live COVID. You already got si…

> When you get a COVID vaccine you are getting COVID. That’s literally all a vaccine is: a copy of the disease you want protection against, so that your immune system can gear up to fight it.

Whoa, hold on there buddy.

You might want to look up the difference between mRNA vaccines and traditional ones.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#853

Post by nradov »

jacquesm wrote: post #716
stormking wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but then the unvaccinated would only be risking their own lives. The most prominent argument for compulsory vaccination right now is that they're taking away scarce ICU beds.

It's a factor, but not the whole story. A lot of people are immunocompromised and for them just getting infected immediately raises the risks to unacceptable levels. We all owe the weaker people in our societies (from a health perspective) to take care of them, and if that requires us to get vaccinated to create a cordon of safety then so be it. That there are a bunch of egoists that would rather have us all fend for…

I encourage everyone eligible to get vaccinated, however in the long run that won't protect the immunocompromised. The virus is so contagious that there will be no significant herd immunity effect. Everyone will be exposed eventually.

https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immu...

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#854

Post by nradov »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #845
passing_by_and wrote: post #767

What I really like about all these different threads and topics on COVID is the mastery of control that is shown. We have viable treatments that work and could be prescribed en masse. Not discussed, not mentioned. The sole discussion topic is "vaccines" and mask theatre. Totally ignoring any inconvenient data about either. Everyone's focus is to tear each other apart about which level of destruction is best for the n…

When you're essentially killing other people you've stepped outside of your my body, my choice parameters unless you also agree to stay home and not be a disease vector. You don't have the right to give me, my kids, my wife, or my family covid when a simple safe and effective vaccine is available.

I encourage everyone eligible to get vaccinated, but vaccinated people are also disease vectors. You and your family will all be exposed to the virus occasionally. This is inevitable.

https://www.businessinsider.com/delta-variant-made-herd-immu...

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#855

Post by [deleted] »

Jansen312 wrote: post #818
passing_by_and wrote: post #767

What I really like about all these different threads and topics on COVID is the mastery of control that is shown. We have viable treatments that work and could be prescribed en masse. Not discussed, not mentioned. The sole discussion topic is "vaccines" and mask theatre. Totally ignoring any inconvenient data about either. Everyone's focus is to tear each other apart about which level of destruction is best for the n…

The issue here is really cost to public. Non vaccinated has high chance to get severe complication when infected. They will utilize hospitals and healthcare whether public or private. For private, we can choose to ignore as the price will adjust by themselves to determine who lives and who dies. Nobody will bat an eye if a high-end boutique clinic let a poor Covid patient dies because bed and ventilator is too expens…

[deleted]

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#856

Post by joshuamorton »

mattrighetti wrote: post #826
comex wrote: post #723

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Furthermore, the vaccines don't prevent transmission, They do prevent transmission, since they make people less likely to be infected, and if you're not infected with the virus you won't transmit it. The vaccines are somewhat less effective at preventing people from being infected at all than they are at preventing hospitalization and death, but still significantly effective. [1] [1] https://www.nytimes.com/interac…

Lower probability of getting infected != prevent infection. Lower probability of getting infected == lower probability of spreading the virus != vaccines prevent transmission.

Preventing transmission is not binary.

Reducing the probability of transmission is preventing transmission, as it is preventing [some] transmission.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#857

Post by joshuamorton »

jyscao wrote: post #825
comex wrote: post #723

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Furthermore, the vaccines don't prevent transmission, They do prevent transmission, since they make people less likely to be infected, and if you're not infected with the virus you won't transmit it. The vaccines are somewhat less effective at preventing people from being infected at all than they are at preventing hospitalization and death, but still significantly effective. [1] [1] https://www.nytimes.com/interac…

> They do prevent transmission, since they make people less likely to be infected, and if you're not infected with the virus you won't transmit it. Incorrect. Intramuscular vaccines induce antibody production at nearby lymph nodes inside of the body; and these mRNA vaccines in particular also cause S-antibodies to circulate in one's blood (even though that's unintended and the long term effects are still unknown). Be…

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.10.14.21264959v... (And this is broadly corroborated by other studies)

The consensus from studies is that, while not 100% effective at preventing tranmission, vaccines do reduce the transmission of Covid, even considering Delta (Omnicron is too recent for there to be data, but there's no reason to doubt transmission would also be reduced).

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#858

Post by Apaec »

yladiz wrote: post #20
shoto_io wrote: post #7

As a double vaccinated German, I am very disappointed and angry about this move. Our politicians have failed to prepare the country for the Winter (who could have known...). We lack a basic strategy how to cope with Covid. And now they try to fix this by dividing the country in two. This will have no effect whatsoever on the infections, it will just continue to drive a divide that is already existing and will make an…

Genuine question: given the current situation, what's the alternative? A lockdown for everyone? Vaccine mandate? Doing nothing and removing restrictions? Something else?

Control the media to stop the panic, that only worsens things with a nocebo effect. Gradually remove restrictions since numbers are going down anyways.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#859

Post by nradov »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #846
nradov wrote: post #839

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I encourage everyone eligible to protect themselves by getting vaccinated. However the monoclonal antibody treatments are given on an outpatient basis and are highly effective at preventing hospitalization.

Not an option for many americans that can't afford insurance. vaccines are free and more effective.

Bullshit. The Federal government pays for monoclonal antibody treatments, the same way they pay for vaccines. Uninsured patients aren't turned away. In high risk patients Sotrovimab has about the same effectiveness as vaccines in preventing hospitalization.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2107934

I encourage everyone eligible to protect themselves by getting vaccinated but you need to stop spreading misinformation about other treatments.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#860

Post by TheRealNGenius »

booleandilemma wrote: post #731
tomp wrote: post #672

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the point. The reason people are even mentioning ICU beds are because they're trying to shift the vaccination argument from "do it for yourself, if you want to" to "you have to do it for others". If we had enough ICU beds, there would be NO argument to force people to get vaccinated, just like there is no argument to force people to not smoke or not be fat.

By not getting vaccinated aren't you a danger to others who are not vaccinated? On the other hand, I don't care if you choose to be fat or smoke yourself to death, that won't harm anyone.

second hand smoke is a thing.
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