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Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

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Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So true and not mentioned enough by the media. The fact that we lost more than 4000 ICU beds over last year (during the Corona pandemic!!) because of personnel shortage is mind-boggling. Instead of rewarding those who worked these horrible jobs and maybe attract new workers with better conditions (e.g. more holidays), better pay or tax reduction, our politicians did campaigning and ignored the upcoming winter. Now th…

In Germany, the majority of the cases are from unvaccinated people getting sick and infecting other people https://rocs.hu-berlin.de/publication/maier-2021-germany/

Never trust a model whose parameters you did not pull out of your own ass.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#752
post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So true and not mentioned enough by the media. The fact that we lost more than 4000 ICU beds over last year (during the Corona pandemic!!) because of personnel shortage is mind-boggling. Instead of rewarding those who worked these horrible jobs and maybe attract new workers with better conditions (e.g. more holidays), better pay or tax reduction, our politicians did campaigning and ignored the upcoming winter. Now th…

It is mentioned enough by the media. Thank you. But it seems strange to realize that people don't want to do a job where you have to watch people die like flies over the course of two to three weeks. No money in the world makes that acceptable for many. With the availability of the vaccines (at least in the developed world) this has become a pandemic of the uninformed know-it-alls ("Querdenker" = Crooked thinker, as…

If the problem in Germany is anything like in Sweden, then the issue is not that "people don't want to do a job where you have to watch people die". It is 100% a lack of funding and poor management.

In the last 20 years the standard "joke" (ha ha, only true) about the universal health system is that you need to be in good health in order to have enough energy to fight for your right to get help. The health care debt was an all time high at the start of the pandemic, and has since sky rocketed.

The faults are many. Poor wages has create many empty seats at the university programs. A lack of available personal has created a demand for labour hire employees, creating a system where many are moving to those in order to get pay rises, furthering increasing the cut that the middle men takes. An sharp increase in populations has increased demand, without any corresponding supply or funding. Employees has had an increase in paper work, with technology solutions that has caused additional work rather than optimized the work flow. Those same technology solutions has also been expensive to the point of corruptions, with some deals being actually corruptions that gone to court.

The situation is so bad that my own health clinic is sending every patient that calls them on non-mondays to the emergency department, as they are by law required to redirect the patient somewhere and all their own doctors are booked for the rest of the week, a pattern that been going on every week for the last year. Vacations has been removed as an emergency decision at many hospitals, and in one case the "compensation" for lost summer vacation was a fruit basket.

The expected time frame to raise the standard and actually train enough workers, as calculated by researchers a few years ago, was (if I remember right) somewhere around 10-20 years into the future. One pre-panedmic solution was to encourage skilled immigration directly from hospitals of nearby countries, a fix that obviously is not going to work now. If Germany is anywhere similar, then the blame isn't disinformation. It is systemic problem that has existed for decades and is now being pushed to over the edge.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#753
post #47

What we're seeing here is one of the wealthiest countries in the world with a population of > 80M people crumbling over a few thousand ICU patients because of long-standing issues that were never addressed. The staffing problems in hospitals (and nursing homes) have existed much longer than Covid. I heard a lot about them myself when I did my FSJ (volunteer work) back in 2004, and it's only gotten worse since then. O…

Still, get the vaccine

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#754

I am double vaccinated, pro vax, would get booster if I can, but if this happens in my country I will join the riots. I dont have solution, but if people dont want to get vaccinated they shouldn't be forced, period. I am afraid this pressure will create people that are against all vaccines, and when we get like 20% of new parents not vaccinating their new lockdown babies (which are a lot, everyone i know who can be p…

I fully disagree; this matter is not a question of an opinion. There is absolutely not a single convincing reason why shots should not be mandatory. If people like you will join the riot against it, I will join the riots against the rioters. We finally need Ordnung in society and it cannot be that opinionated people "iT sHoUlD bE nOt MaNdAtOrY bUt I aM PrO VaX, iT iS bEcAuSe oF tHe GrUndGeSeTz" or uneducated should d…

> There is absolutely not a single convincing reason why shots should not be mandatory.

Human rights are principles which are commonly not given justification. As the US founding fathers said "we hold these truths to be self-evident".

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but then the unvaccinated would only be risking their own lives. The most prominent argument for compulsory vaccination right now is that they're taking away scarce ICU beds.

It's a factor, but not the whole story. A lot of people are immunocompromised and for them just getting infected immediately raises the risks to unacceptable levels. We all owe the weaker people in our societies (from a health perspective) to take care of them, and if that requires us to get vaccinated to create a cordon of safety then so be it. That there are a bunch of egoists that would rather have us all fend for…

The dead comment is unfortunately correct, there will probably be no herd immunity with these vaccines. That's what I hear from every virologist/epidemiologist lately anyways, and the real world data with highly vaccinated countries having record surges appears to confirm it.

I agree that it would be a much stronger argument. However, I also find it cruel to force people into an injection that they do not want, and would probably still oppose a universal vaccine mandate for that reason. I'd be okay with a mandate that allows people who really don't want the vaccine to opt out. I'd even be okay with that for the COVID vaccines if it wasn't for the 2G stuff and the awful rhetoric against unvaccinated people that preceded it. Enacting the mandate now makes the whole thing feel too much like "we'll get you somehow". Like I said, I find it cruel. It's not my idea of a humane society.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#756
post #90

Very thought-provoking this mistreatment of the unvaccinated. The process started with demonizing them to the point of being singled out and blamed for how the disease is impacting society. When the discrimination started, there were very few willing to speak for them. Particularly malicious was the expansion of the term anti-vaxxer typically used for a fringe minority which “rejects all vaccines for everyone” to all…

I’m not vaccinated, this is how I feel. I am not militant or political about it. My wife and whole family are vaccinated and I helped them to do it. As a young man, the risk of heart issues does indeed outweigh the risk of hospitalisation from the virus (as I’ve weighed it, anyhow). Victoria, Australia has hit 90% double vaccinated and case numbers have not changed here. To see this underwhelming effect in light of t…

A friend works in a major hospital in Melbourne. All their cardiac, cancer patients and others are vaccinated.

The "heart issues" are a mild inflammation. You take some NSAIDs, rest for a few days, and you're completely fine. My friend compared it to inflammation of your finger if you get a cut. It's a non-issue.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

send families 1 test per week so they can stop the spread quicker This is a great idea, and I'm really curious why we don't have something like this, just mail a free mask and a free test to every address once a week, with a form to request more for larger households, or to request that they stop.

The US postal service isn't nearly robust enough to handle this. We saw that with physical unemployment checks last year when nearly everyone became eligible.

Somehow I get junk mail delivered reliably every week. Maybe put the tests and masks in with that, rather than individually addressing and labeling every shipment.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#758

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it is worth, in the UK there were similar concerns. They set up "Nightingale Hospitals" (reference to Florence Nightingale) - basically convention centres were converted into field hospitals with ventilators. One in London had 4000 beds, and there were others elsewhere in the country. It took 9 days to build the London one (I was impressed!) After all that, the 4000 bed one in London treated 20 patients duri…

Those hospitals were a joke. Ask anybody who worked in the NHS and they would have told you no way in hell could they have found sufficient numbers of staff to actually run them. A publicity stunt. The country went crazy thinking people were dying in the street and we needed emergency hospitals/morgues

We had similar ones here in Czech Republic and it was the same - if we had to use them, there would really not be enough people to run them. :P

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#759
Years of life lost to COVID-19 in USA in 2020 [1]: 5.5M

Years of life lost to heart disease in USA in 2020 [1]: 8.9M

Years of life lost to abortion in USA in 2019 (no stats for 2020 yet?) [2]: 25M = 625,346 * (lets conservatively say 40 years for crack babies etc)

Conclusion: Mandating jogging, banning smoking, and treating -4 month old babies as living entities would all have a larger impact than this mass hysteria. Further, if constant sex were mandated for paired humans, which at, let's say 100M eligible pairs (totally making that number up) * 1 output / year * 40 = 4B/y, vastly exceeding any loss to disease.

We have to figure out what were optimizing for. Is it "total lives", "man years", "freedom", "happiness"? The "total lives" crowd is not doing a great job putting all their eggs in the vaccination basket, nor basically any other basket except the "fellate Pfizer basket".

[1] https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2021/06/16/americans-l...

[2] https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/abortion.h...

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#760
post #630
post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is mentioned enough by the media. Thank you. But it seems strange to realize that people don't want to do a job where you have to watch people die like flies over the course of two to three weeks. No money in the world makes that acceptable for many. With the availability of the vaccines (at least in the developed world) this has become a pandemic of the uninformed know-it-alls ("Querdenker" = Crooked thinker, as…

More money and better shifts and not firing unvaccinated would fill the gap.

You can't have people who are not vaccinated working at a hospital. This has been known for years and has been practiced for years. Vaccinations prevent the spread of disease. Surely you aren't questioning this.
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