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Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

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Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#551
post #388

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

I agree that everybody should get vaccinated. Let's make this virus extinct. But what you describe is majoritarianism. It is a form of democracy but a very weak form. For a lot of people, who are from minority groups, it is indistinguishable from totalitarianism. Why do 30% of people refuse to get vaccinated? (here in Aotearoa it is 5%). Something is happening, people are getting left behind, in vast numbers. Forcing…

> Let's make this virus extinct.

Here's the core problem - unrealistic expectations. Even the CDC has backed off from the whole "make the virus extinct" mantra; they haven't spouted it for over a year now. Which is a good thing - it was utterly ridiculous from day one.

This virus isn't going away. It is carried by animals. You going to vaccinate every animal that we all come in contact with? Ha! You are not going to shelter in place or vaccinate away this virus. We had better figure out how to coexist with it in a rational and reasonable manner.

The good news with the Omicron variant there are no reported hospitalizations in South Africa. So it's more virulent, but less bad. Here is the perfect path to herd immunity - a variant that people can get a mild infection from and have stronger natural immunity to than the vax would give, as well as broader protection to variants. Actually any protection to variants would be an improvement over the current vax - there has be zero confirmation from the CDC or vax makers that the vax provides any protection against Delta, let alone Omicron. All they make are vague promises about it reducing the reaction. Big deal! If the reporting by South African doctors is correct and Omicron is as mild as they have seen then what exactly is the vax doing? Nothing - except exposing you needlessly to potential side effects.

BTW that Omicron is more virulent but less bad is totally unsurprising to anyone familiar with viruses and who wasn't politically motivated or shamed to pushing the ridiculous narratives around COVID right now; this is totally expected behavior as viruses mature in the wild and was predicted by many virologists last year. Virologists who were then quickly derided as quacks, truthers and worse since they dared to challenge the widely accepted groupthink. Same crap that happened with the lab leak, changing stances on masks, ignoring of massive spike in reports in the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) and more - hot takes that turned out to be VERY wrong later but amazingly the corrections never get the same amount of publicity as the initial propaganda.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#552
post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that everybody should get vaccinated. Let's make this virus extinct. But what you describe is majoritarianism. It is a form of democracy but a very weak form. For a lot of people, who are from minority groups, it is indistinguishable from totalitarianism. Why do 30% of people refuse to get vaccinated? (here in Aotearoa it is 5%). Something is happening, people are getting left behind, in vast numbers. Forcing…

No, it's not totalitarian. In Germany we have a constitution that protects all human's right equally. If there's good reasons why you can't receive a vaccination, I'm pretty sure nobody can force you. Not even the state. Go to your doctor to get an attest that exempts you from the mandatory vaccination. Nothing easier than that in Germany. And again: You are just speculating. Nobody knows if a vaccine mandate leaves…

So I could go to a doctor and ask for exemption on the grounds that I'm a young male and I'm most susceptible to getting Myocarditis from the shots? Or that I've already had Covid and there's good evidence that I don't need a shot?

I don't think so.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#553
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only are they forcing the unvaccinated to get the shot, they are also forcing everyone who is fully vaccinated to get booster shots every 6 months for the indefinite future. When the vaccines were first introduced their validity was fixed at 12 months and their was talk about extending it ("because they are so incredibly effective").

Not sure what to say without being labeled an anti vaxxer... I was very sick for a week after each shot. I'm 30, I work from home, I work out, I'm lean and only go out when running in the forest and buy food. I can't possibly know what would happen if I caught covid, but I wish the vaccination (I'm already vaxxed, but I mean the boosters) was my choice. With my reaction to the vaccines, it's two weeks a year guarante…

I was also very sick after my first dose. Completely fine with the booster. Don’t assume you will react the same with the booster as you did the first dose.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#554

I'd be more open to getting vaccinated when I see people actively making use of hand sanitizers in stores. When people learn to cover their whole faces with their masks. When they learn to keep distance. Vaccinated people who are old, sick or born with bad luck in the genetic lottery are still at risk. Vaccination doesn't mean people can go back to doing whatever they want. The vaccination itself can be a risk to cer…

Dude, it's nearly 2022. How do you still not know that covid is an airborne virus and hand sanitizer doesn't help anything?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#555
post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's worth to point out here that since "it's in everyone's best interest to get vaccinated" you can't really call it taking "one for the team". People getting vaccinated are taking "one for the team" and at the same time "looking out for number one". That's the beauty of it, really: aligned incentives.

Perhaps this is true for covid19, as the vaccines do not seem to stop the vaccinated from getting infected and spreading the virus. But for vaccines that actually stop the majority of vaccinated from becoming infectious the risk reward calculation changes. All vaccinations have some level of risk. If you are surrounded by unvaccinated, your risk of not getting the vaccine outweighs the risk of catching the disease fr…

Well yeah, but what you said is exactly the problem here... Vaccines were promised to be safe and effective against infections... then astrazeneca killed a few people, Jansenn killed a few people, moderna was stopped in finland, sweden, denmark etc., and of course people lose trust. In slovenia, for girls under 25, we currently have 1 death due to the vaccine (jansenn) and zero deaths due to covid (with a bit over 50% of the population getting covid - around 1mio). Also the changing the definition, from "preventing infection" to "preveting hospitalizations" doesn't help.

I got vaccinated to protect myself. I am aware that even with 100% vaccination rates, sooner or later i will get in contact with covid (and/or i probably already have), and the vaccine is protecting only me. I am not afraid of the unvaccinated, and I don't care if they choose a greater risk, it's their life, and their choice.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#556

I think the biggest unsung problems in this saga, is actually one of marketing. The average person has experience with vaccines that have 3 properties: (1) long lasting, (2) prevent contagion (3) and major symptoms. By calling the mRNA shot a vaccine , the WHO and CDC transferred such properties to the shot. That may have been great for encouraging adoption, but also comes with consequences particularly if two vaccin…

this has been a worldwide problem - the fact that it even happened in germany is concerning. Governments were looking for easy way outs left and right, but more importantly, did not take the time to create an international scientific task force to research treatments. The Manhattan project started 2 years after the start of WW2. Maybe the time is right to consider large-scale responses to this war as well. Or at least to realize that epidemiology isn't really as good as it should be and we need to fix that fast.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#558

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

> Besides, it's in everyone's best interest to get vaccinated. No. Some are OK with the risk. > this is a democracy If all the possible choices for the vote are supported by all the parties. If there are unacceptable choices, this is just a dictatorship of the majority.

What about compulsory seatbelts?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the most salient thing about rights is that the majority isn't permitted take them away whenever it suits them.

Access to healthcare is considered a right in Germany. They're mandating vaccines so that they can continue to provide all their citizens with this human right. Sometimes rights clash, which is why you can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater despite having the right to freedom of speech. An individual's right to do X on principle can absolutely be overruled by the right for a larger group of people to continue living…

> Access to healthcare is considered a right in Germany.

> They're mandating vaccines so that they can continue to provide all their citizens with this human right.

This is exactly why those people are wrong. True rights never clash.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#560

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

> this is a democracy and so it can also be deemed legitimate and representative to govern according to the majority decision

Not if the decision violates the constitution.

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