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Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

cnn.com

391–400 of 1001 posts

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#391

Realistically: 1) Mandatory vaccination, all age groups, boosters etc. AND 2) permanently reconfiguring our society to reduce social contacts such that with the vaccines, COVID is suppressed. If the vaccines work well, then small (maybe no) changes will be needed. If they don't, then large changes. WFH, no indoor hospitality etc. We can cycle through lockdowns, we can wring our hands about vaccinating children, we ca…

Let me be clear: no place that has not put these measures in place has, or will, experience "complete failure" of their healthcare system. What you stated is a false dichotomy.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was myopic cargo-culting since day one. I used to think that over the years I'd gotten smarter and subtler from my initial libertarian leanings, but this has opened up my eyes on how bad authorities can mess up, and more worryingly convince their people they're doing the right thing.

As libertarian leaning and someone who wants the state at a good distance, I believe that in many cases people are doing what they can, sadly, it fails to be enough. However, what’s the alternative?

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Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#394

I am double vaccinated, pro vax, would get booster if I can, but if this happens in my country I will join the riots. I dont have solution, but if people dont want to get vaccinated they shouldn't be forced, period. I am afraid this pressure will create people that are against all vaccines, and when we get like 20% of new parents not vaccinating their new lockdown babies (which are a lot, everyone i know who can be p…

> e.g. send families 1 test per week so they can stop the spread quicker. I'm afraid you're missing reality, our kids are getting tested 3 times per week already and still we're in quarantine right now for the second week because an unvaccinated child care assistant has infected half the place and now it's going everywhere. There is no dialogue or discussion going on anymore. We have two factions in this country by n…

As far as I know vaccinated people (like myself) can also spread the virus, the vaccination helps only your immune system to combat the disease. So don't blame the unvaccinated for this. But I'm with you in the medical care part, vaccinated people should get priority. But they won't...

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#395

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

If 70% of people have a tattoo of a cross the remaining 30% have to get it because of the "democratic process"?

In Florida the summer outbreak stopped by itself and the hospital capacity did not break down completely. The outbreak will stop by itself in Germany, too. But of course Germans need to dramatize everything ...

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#396

I am double vaccinated, pro vax, would get booster if I can, but if this happens in my country I will join the riots. I dont have solution, but if people dont want to get vaccinated they shouldn't be forced, period. I am afraid this pressure will create people that are against all vaccines, and when we get like 20% of new parents not vaccinating their new lockdown babies (which are a lot, everyone i know who can be p…

I fully disagree; this matter is not a question of an opinion. There is absolutely not a single convincing reason why shots should not be mandatory. If people like you will join the riot against it, I will join the riots against the rioters. We finally need Ordnung in society and it cannot be that opinionated people "iT sHoUlD bE nOt MaNdAtOrY bUt I aM PrO VaX, iT iS bEcAuSe oF tHe GrUndGeSeTz" or uneducated should d…

> absolutely not a single convincing reason why shots should not be mandatory.

what if you are wrong?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#397

Realistically: 1) Mandatory vaccination, all age groups, boosters etc. AND 2) permanently reconfiguring our society to reduce social contacts such that with the vaccines, COVID is suppressed. If the vaccines work well, then small (maybe no) changes will be needed. If they don't, then large changes. WFH, no indoor hospitality etc. We can cycle through lockdowns, we can wring our hands about vaccinating children, we ca…

So uh, maybe we decide that life doesn’t need to be permanently centered around Covid and just move on?

And realistically that is what society will do. Move on. There are infinitely more problems in the world than just Covid. Solving for exactly Covid to the exclusion of literally everything else is complete madness. Any rational person will tell you that. Life is to short to maintain a Covid centric lifestyle… life is meant to be lived.

Oh yeah, and we’ve been wringing our hands about hospital capacity for 2 years now. Perhaps we should ask why there isn’t any effort at all into increasing it? Forcing society to do all these restrictions to “protect hospitals” while doing fuck all to increase capacity is also madness… perhaps hospitals are actually just fine? If they were actually “full” why has nothing been done to address the problem? This is an emergency, right?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#398
post #388

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

I agree that everybody should get vaccinated. Let's make this virus extinct. But what you describe is majoritarianism. It is a form of democracy but a very weak form. For a lot of people, who are from minority groups, it is indistinguishable from totalitarianism. Why do 30% of people refuse to get vaccinated? (here in Aotearoa it is 5%). Something is happening, people are getting left behind, in vast numbers. Forcing…

You cannot make this virus extinct. These vaccines do not accomplish this goal, the end.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#399
post #388

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

I agree that everybody should get vaccinated. Let's make this virus extinct. But what you describe is majoritarianism. It is a form of democracy but a very weak form. For a lot of people, who are from minority groups, it is indistinguishable from totalitarianism. Why do 30% of people refuse to get vaccinated? (here in Aotearoa it is 5%). Something is happening, people are getting left behind, in vast numbers. Forcing…

No, it's not totalitarian.

In Germany we have a constitution that protects all human's right equally. If there's good reasons why you can't receive a vaccination, I'm pretty sure nobody can force you. Not even the state. Go to your doctor to get an attest that exempts you from the mandatory vaccination. Nothing easier than that in Germany.

And again: You are just speculating. Nobody knows if a vaccine mandate leaves people behind it tropes. You cannot know it, because it hasn't happened.

I'd rather make decisions based on facts than just speculating about hypotheticals.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#400
> Many hospitals are struggling to cope with the increasing number of intensive care patients. There could be around 6,000 Covid-19 patients in intensive care by Christmas -- regardless of any measures implemented by Germany's leaders -- the country's Interdisciplinary Association for Intensive Care and Emergency (Divi) warned Wednesday.

The article doesn't really talk about the rate of change to date. An article from The Guardian puts this into perspective:

> Daily new infections in Germany have broken records in recent weeks, with many hospitals operating at or over capacity. Authorities said 73,209 new cases were recorded in the past 24 hours. Deaths have surged from a rolling seven-day average of just over 10 a day in August to nearly 300 this week.

To enforce something like this policy requires:

- laws and penalties

- a method for identifying those who get special treatment

- verification procedures

You'd think a country like Germany would be especially sensitive to the idea of segregating 1/3 of the population for special treatment. I'm going to assume this isn't lost on anybody there.

The question then becomes: what if this doesn't work? What if biology overtakes the law (i.e., a new variant begins sending the vaccinated into hospitals as well)? What if biology has already overtaken the law?

If it does work, when does it end? If it ends, under what circumstances is it Ok to re-impose? What precedent does this set and what unintended consequences might result (e.g., a new strain of a virus with a vaccine emerges)?

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