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Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

cnn.com

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Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#401

Post by MauranKilom »

renewiltord wrote: post #370
somewhereoutth wrote: post #354

Realistically: 1) Mandatory vaccination, all age groups, boosters etc. AND 2) permanently reconfiguring our society to reduce social contacts such that with the vaccines, COVID is suppressed. If the vaccines work well, then small (maybe no) changes will be needed. If they don't, then large changes. WFH, no indoor hospitality etc. We can cycle through lockdowns, we can wring our hands about vaccinating children, we ca…

Despite the wide variety of US state responses, no one is experiencing "complete failure of our healthcare" so I think we'll be all right.

German hospitals are currently transferring patients with severe cases from high incidence regions to lower ones (and the military has to help with nursing roles) because they simply can't stem the number of severe cases in some regions. The situation is as close to "complete failure of our healthcare" as it could be. If you take that as evidence of "we'll be alright", you're playing the white hat guy in https://xkcd.com/2278/.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#402

Post by nawgz »

renewiltord wrote: post #370
somewhereoutth wrote: post #354

Realistically: 1) Mandatory vaccination, all age groups, boosters etc. AND 2) permanently reconfiguring our society to reduce social contacts such that with the vaccines, COVID is suppressed. If the vaccines work well, then small (maybe no) changes will be needed. If they don't, then large changes. WFH, no indoor hospitality etc. We can cycle through lockdowns, we can wring our hands about vaccinating children, we ca…

Despite the wide variety of US state responses, no one is experiencing "complete failure of our healthcare" so I think we'll be all right.

I think it would be pretty inaccurate to argue that because it's not "complete failure" that it's not a failure. People are dying of medically preventable situations on the basis of triage, and it is fairly widespread in places where COVID is unchecked. I think that's really not ok; especially not when it's unvaccinated COVID patiences.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#403

Post by fhany »

somewhereoutth wrote: post #354

Realistically: 1) Mandatory vaccination, all age groups, boosters etc. AND 2) permanently reconfiguring our society to reduce social contacts such that with the vaccines, COVID is suppressed. If the vaccines work well, then small (maybe no) changes will be needed. If they don't, then large changes. WFH, no indoor hospitality etc. We can cycle through lockdowns, we can wring our hands about vaccinating children, we ca…

The winter outbreaks in the northern hemisphere seem to disprove these conjectures:

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/christmas-cancelled-gi...

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#404

Post by timdaub »

fhany wrote: post #395
timdaub wrote: post #369

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

If 70% of people have a tattoo of a cross the remaining 30% have to get it because of the "democratic process"? In Florida the summer outbreak stopped by itself and the hospital capacity did not break down completely. The outbreak will stop by itself in Germany, too. But of course Germans need to dramatize everything ...

Of course not. Why would that be? Nobody is clogging up ICU beds over getting tattoos. smh.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#405

Post by Gasp0de »

renewiltord wrote: post #370
somewhereoutth wrote: post #354

Realistically: 1) Mandatory vaccination, all age groups, boosters etc. AND 2) permanently reconfiguring our society to reduce social contacts such that with the vaccines, COVID is suppressed. If the vaccines work well, then small (maybe no) changes will be needed. If they don't, then large changes. WFH, no indoor hospitality etc. We can cycle through lockdowns, we can wring our hands about vaccinating children, we ca…

Despite the wide variety of US state responses, no one is experiencing "complete failure of our healthcare" so I think we'll be all right.

Because half the population can't afford to see a doctor and would rather die than leave a pile of debt to their families?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#406

Post by prohobo »

MauranKilom wrote: post #401
renewiltord wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite the wide variety of US state responses, no one is experiencing "complete failure of our healthcare" so I think we'll be all right.

German hospitals are currently transferring patients with severe cases from high incidence regions to lower ones (and the military has to help with nursing roles) because they simply can't stem the number of severe cases in some regions. The situation is as close to "complete failure of our healthcare" as it could be. If you take that as evidence of "we'll be alright", you're playing the white hat guy in https://xkcd…

Do you think, maybe, that has something to do with Germany losing 4000 ICU beds? https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-icu-medics-expect-covid-surge...

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#407

Post by endymi0n »

endymi0n wrote: post #358
throwaway47292 wrote: post #335

I am double vaccinated, pro vax, would get booster if I can, but if this happens in my country I will join the riots. I dont have solution, but if people dont want to get vaccinated they shouldn't be forced, period. I am afraid this pressure will create people that are against all vaccines, and when we get like 20% of new parents not vaccinating their new lockdown babies (which are a lot, everyone i know who can be p…

> e.g. send families 1 test per week so they can stop the spread quicker. I'm afraid you're missing reality, our kids are getting tested 3 times per week already and still we're in quarantine right now for the second week because an unvaccinated child care assistant has infected half the place and now it's going everywhere. There is no dialogue or discussion going on anymore. We have two factions in this country by n…

Oh, and because some people told me that would be "unethical" (and how to prioritize against smokers and motorbikers): It's really not, at least not any less unethical than not getting vaccinated.

These people aren't just fully prepared to still take the risk of dying by Covid up to this day, they also statistically kill 0.01 other people by getting infected.

We put people who kill other people in jail here, and increase their risk of dying by suicide about 10x that way. So far, everyone is fine with that.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#408

Post by datameta »

spookthesunset wrote: post #397
somewhereoutth wrote: post #354

Realistically: 1) Mandatory vaccination, all age groups, boosters etc. AND 2) permanently reconfiguring our society to reduce social contacts such that with the vaccines, COVID is suppressed. If the vaccines work well, then small (maybe no) changes will be needed. If they don't, then large changes. WFH, no indoor hospitality etc. We can cycle through lockdowns, we can wring our hands about vaccinating children, we ca…

So uh, maybe we decide that life doesn’t need to be permanently centered around Covid and just move on? And realistically that is what society will do. Move on. There are infinitely more problems in the world than just Covid. Solving for exactly Covid to the exclusion of literally everything else is complete madness. Any rational person will tell you that. Life is to short to maintain a Covid centric lifestyle… life…

Spoken like an able-bodied individual of young(er) age and/or someone with zero co-morbidities. Fuck the rest, eh?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#409

Post by throwaway47292 »

pietjepuk88 wrote: post #359
throwaway47292 wrote: post #335

I am double vaccinated, pro vax, would get booster if I can, but if this happens in my country I will join the riots. I dont have solution, but if people dont want to get vaccinated they shouldn't be forced, period. I am afraid this pressure will create people that are against all vaccines, and when we get like 20% of new parents not vaccinating their new lockdown babies (which are a lot, everyone i know who can be p…

> they shouldn't be forced I was under the impression that you'd just get fined if you don't get your shot. It's not like they are going to take you prisoner and stick a needle in you.

Until when? when the next wave comes and the unvaccinated are 40% instead of 30%, do you think they wont start forcing the needle?

How many people would get the booster? and the next booster after that?

I think its reasonable to assume that every 6 months the unvaccinated group with grow with 5% or so, how long until they become more than the vaccinated?

What will happen when they elect the new government in 2 years

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#410

Post by ghaff »

rory wrote: post #249
santoshalper wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Swedes wore their masks and got vaccinated. What worked for them would not necessarily have worked for us.

I'm not sure who "us" is for you, but Swedes are not vaccinated at an especially high rate. They're at about the EU average. 8-10% above the US average, 5-7% above California, but a few percent below New England, for example.

And two of those New England states have among the highest case rates in the country right now (which isn't the same as death rates of course).
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