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Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

cnn.com

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Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#351

Post by wolverine876 »

cheeseomlit wrote: post #318
wolverine876 wrote: post #119

I would be very happy if my government did the same. What a relief it would be! It's a public health measure, like public sanitation requirements, and driving a car that meets safety requirements. Unvaccinated people should be free to do whatever they want, short of risking infecting other people. Your freedom ends where your fist ends and my nose begins.

>Your freedom ends where your fist ends and my nose begins. The governments freedom ends where my epidermis begins.

Your government can imprison you, it can do body cavity searches, it can force medical procedures on you, all depending on the circumstances.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#352

Post by liversage »

joshuamorton wrote: post #86
lbj wrote: post #75

In Denmark we have now reached 90% vaccination rate. We have more infected, the same number of admissions in hospital and a 15% higher death rate than all of 2020. I really fail to see why we are blaming the unvaccinated and not Pfizer/Moderna.

Are hospital admissions and mortality rates similar among vaccinated and nonvaccinated individuals?

There is a dashboard (in Danish) with current numbers: https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/aa41b29149f24e20a40...

The number of hospitalized patients per 100K are as follows:

Unvaccinated: 24.7 Started vaccination: 10.5 Fully vaccinated: 5.9

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#353

Post by ImprobableTruth »

serial_dev wrote: post #271
bijant wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only are they forcing the unvaccinated to get the shot, they are also forcing everyone who is fully vaccinated to get booster shots every 6 months for the indefinite future. When the vaccines were first introduced their validity was fixed at 12 months and their was talk about extending it ("because they are so incredibly effective").

Not sure what to say without being labeled an anti vaxxer... I was very sick for a week after each shot. I'm 30, I work from home, I work out, I'm lean and only go out when running in the forest and buy food. I can't possibly know what would happen if I caught covid, but I wish the vaccination (I'm already vaxxed, but I mean the boosters) was my choice. With my reaction to the vaccines, it's two weeks a year guarante…

I think the key issue is hospitals being swamped. Once that happens, death rates will skyrocket even among people not at-risk. Until that point however young and healthy people don't really benefit themselves from the vaccination. It's essentially a tragedy of the commons situation.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#354

Post by somewhereoutth »

Realistically:

1) Mandatory vaccination, all age groups, boosters etc.

AND

2) permanently reconfiguring our society to reduce social contacts such that with the vaccines, COVID is suppressed. If the vaccines work well, then small (maybe no) changes will be needed. If they don't, then large changes. WFH, no indoor hospitality etc.

We can cycle through lockdowns, we can wring our hands about vaccinating children, we can even pretend it isn't happening, but the formula is the same:

vaccines+restrictions=suppression

We don't know what the LHS needs to add up to, and we don't know how much vaccines can give us, but this equation must hold, as the alternative to suppression is complete failure of our healthcare system.

To put another way, suppression is the only steady state. If you allow the virus to run unchecked, then eventually restrictions have to be reimposed. If you release restrictions, then the virus ramps up again. Either you tailor restrictions to suppress, or you bounce up and down around that point. Vaccines move that restriction point down.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#355

Post by bduerst »

Scoundreller wrote: post #139
fabian2k wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something like 50% of the people in intensive care for COVID still die. Even if we were able to handle the load on the healthcare system, that still would be a very large amount of unnecessary suffering and death. And even though there are some fundamental issues with working conditions and pay in this area, fixing them would not be enough to be able to handle the load that an exponentially growing viral disease coul…

> Something like 50% of the people in intensive care for COVID still die. I don’t think this is too far from the survival rate of those admitted to intensive care in general. But I think the point is that COVID really increases your chances of being admitted there in the first place.

ICU survival rate is highly dependent on the cause, diagnosis, and/or disease that the patient is admitted for. It can range from 70-10%.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#356

Post by Broken_Hippo »

TechBro8615 wrote: post #5

I’m confused. I thought vaccinated people can spread the virus. Why are they not locked down too?

You should concentrate on the "can". Vaccinated folks are less likely to develop Covid in the first place, and as such, aren't as likely to spread it. And if they do develop it, it is less likely to be serious and require hospitalisation. This keeps us from having to decide who in the hospital lives or dies and takes the stress of of the medical system, workplaces, and families.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#357

Post by 88840-8855 »

throwaway47292 wrote: post #335

I am double vaccinated, pro vax, would get booster if I can, but if this happens in my country I will join the riots. I dont have solution, but if people dont want to get vaccinated they shouldn't be forced, period. I am afraid this pressure will create people that are against all vaccines, and when we get like 20% of new parents not vaccinating their new lockdown babies (which are a lot, everyone i know who can be p…

I fully disagree; this matter is not a question of an opinion. There is absolutely not a single convincing reason why shots should not be mandatory.

If people like you will join the riot against it, I will join the riots against the rioters. We finally need Ordnung in society and it cannot be that opinionated people "iT sHoUlD bE nOt MaNdAtOrY bUt I aM PrO VaX, iT iS bEcAuSe oF tHe GrUndGeSeTz" or uneducated should disturb it. Yes, I am a legalist on topics where the collective must work together and not have "opinions".

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#358

Post by endymi0n »

throwaway47292 wrote: post #335

I am double vaccinated, pro vax, would get booster if I can, but if this happens in my country I will join the riots. I dont have solution, but if people dont want to get vaccinated they shouldn't be forced, period. I am afraid this pressure will create people that are against all vaccines, and when we get like 20% of new parents not vaccinating their new lockdown babies (which are a lot, everyone i know who can be p…

> e.g. send families 1 test per week so they can stop the spread quicker.

I'm afraid you're missing reality, our kids are getting tested 3 times per week already and still we're in quarantine right now for the second week because an unvaccinated child care assistant has infected half the place and now it's going everywhere.

There is no dialogue or discussion going on anymore. We have two factions in this country by now that don't talk to each other anymore, one of which is despising science, empathy, education and any common sense.

And frankly I'm sick of it by now. Like you I wouldn't force anyone from this group to vaccinate against their will, but I'm completely fine with offering intensive care only for the vaccinated by this point.

German army can build up oxygen tents to offer the others a decent chance to survival. I'm really not interested in saving any Nazi or lunatic against their will.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#359

Post by pietjepuk88 »

throwaway47292 wrote: post #335

I am double vaccinated, pro vax, would get booster if I can, but if this happens in my country I will join the riots. I dont have solution, but if people dont want to get vaccinated they shouldn't be forced, period. I am afraid this pressure will create people that are against all vaccines, and when we get like 20% of new parents not vaccinating their new lockdown babies (which are a lot, everyone i know who can be p…

> they shouldn't be forced

I was under the impression that you'd just get fined if you don't get your shot. It's not like they are going to take you prisoner and stick a needle in you.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#360

Post by [deleted] »

throwaway47292 wrote: post #335

I am double vaccinated, pro vax, would get booster if I can, but if this happens in my country I will join the riots. I dont have solution, but if people dont want to get vaccinated they shouldn't be forced, period. I am afraid this pressure will create people that are against all vaccines, and when we get like 20% of new parents not vaccinating their new lockdown babies (which are a lot, everyone i know who can be p…

[deleted]
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