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Microsoft UI has officially entered the realm of self-parody

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Re: Microsoft UI has officially entered the realm of self-parody

#301

Post by shabble »

irq wrote: post #234
shabble wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure if it's just me, but the 'pinch with 3 fingers and thumb' gesture seems to be practically impossible on the older macbooks with a separate pad & button - there just isn't the space.

That's completely okay because those older touchpads don't support gestures beyond two-finger-scroll anyway.

No, it supports both 3 finger swipe (fwd/back in browsers), and 4 finger swipe (change Space), as well as, iirc 3 finger touch & click (although I haven't got this working since I installed Lion)

Re: Microsoft UI has officially entered the realm of self-parody

#302

Post by DanElectrode »

krig wrote: post #253

I don't understand how there can be so many posts here defending this UI. Is this a concerted effort by Microsoft to flood hacker news with their viewpoint? I just don't see how this is a defensible UI, at all. Seriously, it's overwhelming. The UI is constantly shouting commands at the user, regardless of what the user is trying to do. UIs like these are exactly where the problem my parents have with computers come f…

The new Windows 8 tile-based interface will be the default way to interact with your files and applications, Explorer will be only for when you need to do some advanced file management. Your parents will most likely never have to use it.

Re: Microsoft UI has officially entered the realm of self-parody

#303

Post by r00fus »

siromega wrote: post #123

The simple answer is that MS had to add all those buttons in the ribbon to make the UI more touch friendly. You cant right click on a tablet with your finger.

There are more elegant ways to add touch-usable capabilities than gobbling up real-estate (iOS implements the "context menu" as a long-click meta-mode). You could also use persistent buttons like PalmOS/Android.

Discoverability is a prime way to keep things elegant (ie, don't push it in a user's face - let them find it easily).

Of course, if Microsoft wants to address BOTH touch and desktop, then I wish them well... that's a herculean task and I don't think any solution work well for either.

Re: Microsoft UI has officially entered the realm of self-parody

#304

Post by huhtenberg »

jdp23 wrote: post #100
alanfalcon wrote: post #51

Reminds me of this video, which I was told was actually created by Microsoft as a self-parody, though I don't have any supporting evidence. "Microsoft Designs the iPod Package:" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9HfdSp2E2A

Yes, this video was done by an internal group at Microsoft.

How do you know?

Re: Microsoft UI has officially entered the realm of self-parody

#305

Post by Symmetry »

Stratoscope wrote: post #116
dhimes wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re: explorer-- then I probably used the wrong term. I was refering to the program you are using when you are on the desktop, and simply want to copy a file. Mac used to call this the "Finder," I believe. Now the idea that you actually have more problem with experienced users is interesting. I can see that in myself (damn new microwave!). But I still feel like it's no harder to learn, however, than what a bunch of ico…

You have the right terminology for both platforms. It's still called Finder on the Mac, and Windows Explorer or Explorer for short - in fact the executable is explorer.exe.

The generic term is usually 'file manager'. There are at least of half dozen of them in the Linux world.

Re: Microsoft UI has officially entered the realm of self-parody

#306

Post by saratogacx »

hernan7 wrote: post #34
sp332 wrote: post #5

In Windows 7, the menu bar is hidden by default, that's why no one uses it. Also, "no one uses" those other commands only because no one knows they exist now. The whole point to the new UI is to change things to be better.

Yes, instead of the menu bar they have this weird bar with "Organize", "New Folder", and "Burn". Not sure why "Burn" on every single explorer window; maybe they think all users are Napster fiends or something...

Burn shows up because that bar is designed to show the options that you'd get in the top section of a context menu.

If you don't have anything selected you only get Organize and New folder. If you select a PDF you get Open with X, Print, and E-mail added.

Because every file can technically be "burned" when you have a CD burner it shows up all over the place.

Re: Microsoft UI has officially entered the realm of self-parody

#307

Post by yason »

51Cards wrote: post #41
dhimes wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most new computer users find it very hard to remember additional, non intuitive actions like right clicking & context menus I didn't realize this. In fact, if I were asked to guess, I would have answered that most new users would pick up pretty quickly how to use context menus, especially if the context menus had related commands like file manipulation if in Windows Explorer (is it still called that?), or formatting…

Yes but people don't WANT to learn things like this. My mother doesn't want to remember what mouse button to click or that CTRL or ALT is a modifier on this command. I would argue that THIS is what made Apple's OS hang on all those years it was in the severe minority. There is a segment of the population that wants only one mouse button to click, not 3, not 3 plus CTRL or ALT or etc. Apple did end up having to rely h…

I've often wondered why not pop up the context menu with the left mouse button, then. It's what most people seem to use most. How many times you actually have to select a file, except to context-click on it?

Selection only comes handy when you will be doing something to several items at once. Thus, the selection function could be turned on via a menu item or a button: it's a totally different operating mode where you click on or drag around the items to select them.

Re: Microsoft UI has officially entered the realm of self-parody

#308

Post by saratogacx »

siromega wrote: post #123

The simple answer is that MS had to add all those buttons in the ribbon to make the UI more touch friendly. You cant right click on a tablet with your finger.

Press and hold is right click. Android, iOS, Windows Mobile, Tablet versions of windows for at least vista and 7 all use this.

Re: Microsoft UI has officially entered the realm of self-parody

#309

Post by richardw »

waitwhat wrote: post #300
richardw wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People who don't know about menus shouldn't really be mass-deleting things yet. Alternatively, add a button for "Help! -The Computer lost all my stuff".

That button is called the "Recycle Bin". I believe it has been on the default desktop since at least Windows 95.

A brief Google search confirms that "lost my files" wasn't solved in 1995. I'm pretty sure those aren't all Mac users. Even if 90% are due to other issues, there are many people who would like their data back. I believe many are due to the ease with which a user can delete files compared to the difficulty they experience when restoring them.

The dangerous button is much easier to find than the fix-it button. One is right there, with your files. The other is someplace else, related by metaphor alone. Once you have selected the recycle bin you then have to search through your very long deleted file list, select the file you want, select another button to restore it (which appears in the same place as a different button existed before selecting the file), and then navigate back to the place you were expecting the file to be. We're talking about users who can't figure out a menu, but they can perform this multi-step task. I can easily see a new computer user screwing this up.

Next time you look at the context menu of a removable drive, see that "Format" is right there with the eject menu item. One should be used every time you use the drive, the other very rarely and only when you're sure. The latter should be removed to a sub-menu under "advanced", or similar.

Myself, I'd make it harder to delete things and a lot easier to find them again.

Re: Microsoft UI has officially entered the realm of self-parody

#310

Post by hackinthebochs »

testcock1 wrote: post #96
rickmb wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but it will be extremely helpful for beginners Methinks that kind of summarizes the issue: Microsoft doesn't seem to realize it's not 1995 anymore. "Beginners" are no longer a big market, and people are more comfortable with "discovering" software interfaces, as proven by the success of web apps, Apple, etcetera.

I think this is a very subjective viewpoint, which is understandable considering the website we're on, but it still overlooks how huge the PC market really is, along with the Windows userbase, and the nature of a lot of its users. There's a huge segment of the Windows userbase who will always be beginners at computers, and their habits and methods are usually mindblowing to any "knowledgeable" user. One such example…

>It is Microsoft's own doing that they made their users get used to interfaces like this

Jesus, the amount of Microsoft-bashing in on this article is insane.

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