100 years of whatever this will be • Hacker News Board

Re: 100 years of whatever this will be

#311

Post by NateEag » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 6:02 PM UTC

Clubber wrote: post #77

lm28469 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Length of life and comfort don't mean much once you reached the bare minimum. If you have running water, central heating, a mattress and own any kind of motorised vehicle you live a more comfortable life than any medieval king. So yeah, sure, we have netflix, smart bulbs and food delivery. Can you sustain a family as easily as your grandparents ? Will you retire as early as them ? Will you acquire an house as easily…

There's an old bluegrass song called "I'll Fly Away," the music is very happy and upbeat. When you listen to the lyrics, you realize it's a slave song about how the narrator is looking forward to death so they can escape the horrible life they are living. The point of that is just because we live longer doesn't mean we live better.

A few point out that

1) A ton of bluegrass sets grim, sad lyrics to bouncy major music - it's pretty much how the genre works

2) I'll Fly Away is a Christian song, so it's not exactly "looking forward to death" so much as "looking forward to heaven and communion with God". Granted, those two things are closely linked in the religion.

Re: 100 years of whatever this will be

#312

Post by soco » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 6:02 PM UTC

moistrobot wrote: post #274

dmitriid wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Our broken institutions are fighting to protect their kingdom Three years ago I bought an apartment. I got a loan from a bank over internet and phone. The contract was three pages of clear Swedish that even I, with my rudimentary knowledge of i, could understand. The contract signing was intermediated by a person whose job is to make sure everything goes smoothly. In the end, all of the following was guaranteed : -…

I'm glad it went well for you :) All of those guarantees are under threat of legal punishment enforced through court systems. All of those guarantees are given to you based on good standing with various institutions. The bank, the intermediary, the seller. If you were a person who was not in good standing with a bank, but you still had the money, could you have completed the transaction? Technology has a trend of des…

If I'm a person who has money but is in bad standing with the banks, maybe I shouldn't be able to do financial transactions at all. It's that, or I'm imagining the wrong reasons why a person with money would have trouble with banks.

Re: 100 years of whatever this will be

#313

Post by pdonis » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 6:03 PM UTC

colinmhayes wrote: post #255

pdonis wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulation by a centralized entity, to restrict people's freedom to engage in voluntary transactions, doesn't fix market failures. It makes them worse.

How do you think externalities should be solved?

> How do you think externalities should be solved?

The only way to solve them is the way suggested by Coase's Theorem: reduce transaction costs to the point where voluntary trades will internalize the externalities. Of course this solution is not always possible, but that just means that in cases where it's not, no solution is possible. There is nothing that requires the universe to always make solutions possible for whatever issues we humans perceive. Certainly it does not follow from the fact that voluntary trades cannot always solve externalities, that government interference in markets does solve them. It doesn't; as I said, it makes them worse.

Re: 100 years of whatever this will be

#314

Post by JasonFruit » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 6:03 PM UTC

maerF0x0 wrote: post #288

robotresearcher wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like anything we could ever hope to try is already accounted for and defeated before the effort even begins. Gay marriage, the fall of communism, civil rights, universal health care (in every rich country but one), women's rights. Don't forget about the very important real progress being made.

I've never understood the reason we even have marriage defined in government at all, and thusly would include "gay" marriage (all marriage is marriage if it's undefined)... We don't have a government definition of prayer or baptism, but for some reason we have have codified that one religious practice into our government? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Also why do they get varyingly get tax incentives or disincen…

How would that increase government power? It's like you aren't even trying to grow government.

Re: 100 years of whatever this will be

#315

Post by AnimalMuppet » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 6:04 PM UTC

cmurf wrote: post #119

pjkundert wrote: post #39

This article is profoundly insightful. I have been searching for patterns and insights in this field for 25 years. What apenwarr concludes is true: All we need is to build distributed systems that work. That means decentralized bulk activity, hierarchical regulation. The problem is, everyone wants distributed systems that require everyone else to agree (global consensus), which is literally impossible (see: CAP theor…

What is the pattern in common among all industries politics governments and culture? The article proposes these things are all interrelated but doesn't make the connections among them. Also for going to identify the pattern we need to have a common frame of reference. The facts have to be indisputable. >Everyone seems to increasingly be in it for themselves Everyone? This sort of hyperbole makes it difficult to ident…

Yes, the original US idea was that of a central government that had very restricted power, and a bunch of states that could reach different decisions within that framework. And that the people being governed had more influence over what the state did than over what the country did, so the state was more responsive to the peoples' needs, wants, and desires.

I would argue that over the years, we have moved away from that. We now have a much more powerful national government, that is more ruler over the states. And I think in doing so, we have gained some things, but we have also lost some things.

I think there is merit to the idea of a multi-level hierarchy, where the higher levels have more restricted areas of power, but are also harder to change. But there's one other piece that's needed: Mobility between lower-level domains. If I don't like what California's doing, I can move to Texas, and we need similar things (hopefully easier than physically moving) in other systems.

Re: 100 years of whatever this will be

#316

Post by burntoutfire » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 6:04 PM UTC

maerF0x0 wrote: post #288

robotresearcher wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like anything we could ever hope to try is already accounted for and defeated before the effort even begins. Gay marriage, the fall of communism, civil rights, universal health care (in every rich country but one), women's rights. Don't forget about the very important real progress being made.

I've never understood the reason we even have marriage defined in government at all, and thusly would include "gay" marriage (all marriage is marriage if it's undefined)... We don't have a government definition of prayer or baptism, but for some reason we have have codified that one religious practice into our government? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Also why do they get varyingly get tax incentives or disincen…

Marriage is not a religious practice. Proof: non-religious people get married all the time.

Re: 100 years of whatever this will be

#317

Post by thegrimmest » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 6:05 PM UTC

stnikolauswagne wrote: post #298

thegrimmest wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm saying that "society" is basically an agreement to peacefully coexist, using due process to resolve disputes. It's not an agreement to cooperate. Just because the processes by which some some succeed and some fail are non-violent doesn't mean that those successes and failures shouldn't be total. > people who own everything are the intellectual and physical champions They're not, and I never said they were. All I…

> What does it matter how the entrepreneur spends his money? Lets take your scenario one step further. The entrepreneur now uses his newly gotten weatlh, buys up some neccessary infrastructure that everyone relies on (for sake of argument lets the food supply) and raises the price to 26ct, everyone in the society but him starves to death and no violence was used. At what point, if any, should a hypothetical state ste…

Nowhere? If you sell your only milk-giving cow, don't be surprised if the prices of milk increases. You're using "buys up" like the people selling had no choice. They have plenty of choices: they can refuse to sell, they can refuse to cooperate with the new owner, they can go and build new infrastructure. Ultimately, a property owner is not a monarch, and can't force anyone to do anything. These techniques have been used in to remarkable effect in the past to peacefully compel good behavior. See Charles Cunningham Boycott or Mahatma Gandhi.

Re: 100 years of whatever this will be

#318

Post by pdonis » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 6:05 PM UTC

colinmhayes wrote: post #255

pdonis wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulation by a centralized entity, to restrict people's freedom to engage in voluntary transactions, doesn't fix market failures. It makes them worse.

How do you think externalities should be solved?

> How do you think externalities should be solved?

Since government interference with markets involves people making rules who are not parties to any of the transactions in the market and who suffer no penalties when their interference causes harm, government interference itself is an externality. So the claim that government interference can somehow solve externalities is obviously false on its face.

Re: 100 years of whatever this will be

#319

Post by IAmWorried » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 6:05 PM UTC

debacle wrote: post #63

For everyone reading this article who agrees with it, I would encourage you to start reading some history, especially ancient history, late 1800s history, and the history of colonialism. Society, once you look at inputs and outputs, is predicated on "the masses" abdicating intellectual responsibility to leaders who leverage them for their own benefit. This has happened since before recorded history. It is codified in…

It's gonna happen this decade, I'm sure of it. Covid has completely screwed our hyperefficient society to the point where I think no human institutions can stem the massive tidal wave that is coming. I'd guess that the financial system, the higher education system, and the political system will all come undone during this period - there aren't many good bets, but I think being good with computers is reasonably safe, as computers are so efficient and eco-friendly that I am almost certain that they will be the centerpiece of whatever new system emerges.

Re: 100 years of whatever this will be

#320

Post by gumby » Thu, Dec 02, 2021, 6:06 PM UTC

maerF0x0 wrote: post #288

robotresearcher wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like anything we could ever hope to try is already accounted for and defeated before the effort even begins. Gay marriage, the fall of communism, civil rights, universal health care (in every rich country but one), women's rights. Don't forget about the very important real progress being made.

I've never understood the reason we even have marriage defined in government at all, and thusly would include "gay" marriage (all marriage is marriage if it's undefined)... We don't have a government definition of prayer or baptism, but for some reason we have have codified that one religious practice into our government? Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Also why do they get varyingly get tax incentives or disincen…

I mostly agree with you but there are certain useful functions. It’s an optional service the state provides to many many* people with negligible transaction fee, as with, for example, maintaining the roads, air traffic control, or food safety. Those things help you even if you never leave your home or never fly.

First it’s a default mechanism for saying things like “if I get hurt this person can come see me in / ask questions about me in the hospital”. Also “we have joint economic activity so friction should be removed”.

Second, kids can’t necessarily articulate for themselves so it’s a default way of saying “here’s a couple of people who are helping me and others can be disregarded by default”

And it acts as a dash pot for both entering into and especially leaving these set of default rights and obligations.

* Marriage should be universally available. I’ve never liked saying that I “supported gay marriage” — the correct phrase is that “I want us to stop discriminating against people in the case of marriage”