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Crypto unlikely to survive as investment if unregulated, SEC chairman says

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Re: Crypto unlikely to survive as investment if unregulated, SEC chairman says

#21

Post by toomuchtodo »

twox2 wrote: post #17
toomuchtodo wrote: post #9

It is difficult to get a crypto proponent to understand something, when their crypto wealth depends on them not understanding it. EDIT: If you steal my gold or other metal store of value, I can pursue you in court and recover my loss (either the actual materials lost or fiat value). If you steal my single named security, I can pursue you in court and recover my loss (or the clearinghouse will reverse the transaction)…

FWIW, I'm pretty sure banks loose in the hundreds of billions per year to fraud... and it's all heavily regulated.

And customers who experience a loss are made whole through EFTA [2] and Reg. E [1] (if transfer related), with banks eating any costs unrecoverable after pursuing those who perpetrated the theft. Does Coinbase reimburse you if lose your crypto due to fraud [3] [4]? If not, clearly regulation is warranted if they put themselves forth as a custodian and exchange. This doesn't happen in centralized finance, and everyone has some semblance of recourse (depending on fraudulent loss experienced; either your securities or commodities are returned, or investment insurance pays out).

[1] https://www.federalreserve.gov/supervisionreg/regecg.htm

[2] https://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/supmanual/cch/efta....

[3] https://www.businessinsider.com/huobi-global-warrant-seeks-1... (A Coinbase user lost $11.6 million in under 10 minutes after falling for a fake-notification scam, the US attorney's office said)

[4] https://www.google.com/search?q=coinbase+theft

Re: Crypto unlikely to survive as investment if unregulated, SEC chairman says

#23

Post by p0nce »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #9

It is difficult to get a crypto proponent to understand something, when their crypto wealth depends on them not understanding it. EDIT: If you steal my gold or other metal store of value, I can pursue you in court and recover my loss (either the actual materials lost or fiat value). If you steal my single named security, I can pursue you in court and recover my loss (or the clearinghouse will reverse the transaction)…

Perhaps some kind of centralization could help with that.

Re: Crypto unlikely to survive as investment if unregulated, SEC chairman says

#24

Post by GDC7 »

This guy of course talks from the comfort zone of being a beurocrat.

He doesn't have to deal with alienating all the crypto boys and girls.

And there are millions of them! Given that every election is won and lost by a couple of % points give or take...

What will happen is an implosion first and foremost, only once that happens the public will be calling for congressional hearings.

Get ready to see Saylor, Musk, Armstrong, Dorsey going to DC, but only after the bust. Not before.

Re: Crypto unlikely to survive as investment if unregulated, SEC chairman says

#25

Post by jstx1 »

DamnYuppie wrote: post #13
sneak wrote: post #10

I think this is wrong, but once Tether implodes, it will erase a huge amount of value and the ecosystem will take years to recover.

Can you elaborate on this further? I seem the market cap of Tether being quite tiny compared to BTC and ETH. Also Solana is nearly as large and will probably be much larger than Tether in a few months.

> Also Solana

One financially questionable scheme at a time please.

Re: Crypto unlikely to survive as investment if unregulated, SEC chairman says

#26

Post by rodiger »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #9

It is difficult to get a crypto proponent to understand something, when their crypto wealth depends on them not understanding it. EDIT: If you steal my gold or other metal store of value, I can pursue you in court and recover my loss (either the actual materials lost or fiat value). If you steal my single named security, I can pursue you in court and recover my loss (or the clearinghouse will reverse the transaction)…

Who's being protected if I'm fully aware of the risks? I feel like education is much more valuable than dictating what is "too risky" for an individual investor.

But agreed, what you've described is the most-likely outcome.

Re: Crypto unlikely to survive as investment if unregulated, SEC chairman says

#27

Post by Nav_Panel »

e9 wrote: post #18
Nav_Panel wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The joke is that the only reason crypto wouldn't "survive" if unregulated is because they (the feds) would un-regulate it out of existence. ... This is kind of philosophically interesting in light of Giorgio Agamben's discussion of sovereignty and law, in which the prime act of the sovereign is to enact the "ban", i.e. deciding who or what is excluded from the law, which is itself still a status in relation to the la…

I think unregulated in this case means crypto market in general is prone to pump and dump schemes and other market manipulation without legal repercussions

It's more interesting to me why we have a seemingly obvious belief that pump and dump schemes (which are effectively a sort of coordinated social phenomenon rather than a material movement) should be regulated. Begs the question: what is the "point" of the financial system, considered as a kind of bounded game, and why is that interesting to the state as an institution?

Re: Crypto unlikely to survive as investment if unregulated, SEC chairman says

#28

Post by buddylw »

guscost wrote: post #14

1. They ignore you 2. They mock you 3. They fight you 4. You win!

I’m not going to pretend I know the future or anything, but I will say that, while this is a common series of events, #4 can absolutely go two different ways. Everyone loves a good underdog story, but I also wouldn’t say that winning is the most common outcome.

Re: Crypto unlikely to survive as investment if unregulated, SEC chairman says

#29

Post by bachmeier »

asmos7 wrote: post #20
toomuchtodo wrote: post #9

It is difficult to get a crypto proponent to understand something, when their crypto wealth depends on them not understanding it. EDIT: If you steal my gold or other metal store of value, I can pursue you in court and recover my loss (either the actual materials lost or fiat value). If you steal my single named security, I can pursue you in court and recover my loss (or the clearinghouse will reverse the transaction)…

Fun fact but the gov basically stole gold from ppl b4 in the good ole USA. They made it illegal to hold - if you were caught having gold it was a 10k fine. PPL were forced to go to their banks and sell their gold at a loss. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102#:~:text=E... . That article uses the term hoarding but don't be fooled they made holding any relevant amount of gold for investment illegal. You…

Is this comment somehow related to the one you replied to?

Re: Crypto unlikely to survive as investment if unregulated, SEC chairman says

#30

Post by onetimeusename »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #9

It is difficult to get a crypto proponent to understand something, when their crypto wealth depends on them not understanding it. EDIT: If you steal my gold or other metal store of value, I can pursue you in court and recover my loss (either the actual materials lost or fiat value). If you steal my single named security, I can pursue you in court and recover my loss (or the clearinghouse will reverse the transaction)…

How much value has been lost to inflation this year? Why is that acceptable but coding errors are not? I am not a crypto-currency enthusiast but I remember the Bitcoin whitepaper arguing against centralized currency. So it was critical of the Federal Reserve.

I think people should be allowed to choose. If they don't want regulation then fine.

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