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The lost world of physicality

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Re: The lost world of physicality

#41

Post by anamax »

Hisoka wrote: post #25

A side effect of losing touch with the physical world is that it wrecks your brain. You begin to feel isolated from the rest of the world. What doesn't help is the growth of cities, and overpopulation. We start to view other people as competitors and enemies. Have you ever gone through some days when you encounter many people, whether it's in a commute, or whatever and ask why people are so useless in your life? What…

> We start to view other people as competitors and enemies.

Hold that thought.

> In the past, we had tribes.

And different tribes were enemies and competitors.

And, if you don't think that there's competition in a tribe of humans, you're claiming that groups of humans are different from every other group of animals. (Simple example - even in tribes, 40% of males don't have genetic children while only 20% of females are dead ends. That's not all boys dying before breeding age.)

Re: The lost world of physicality

#42

Post by Hisoka »

paulnelligan wrote: post #40
Hisoka wrote: post #25

A side effect of losing touch with the physical world is that it wrecks your brain. You begin to feel isolated from the rest of the world. What doesn't help is the growth of cities, and overpopulation. We start to view other people as competitors and enemies. Have you ever gone through some days when you encounter many people, whether it's in a commute, or whatever and ask why people are so useless in your life? What…

I don't think that being a member of a tribe enabled anyone to save the world, just their village and their families. I would argue that the internet has empowered far more people than ever. I get the Author's point, however I think he's overexaggerating by a long shot. Kids still play with lego, adults still buy books, and certainly do still have real sex with actual people - in fact they can't get enough of it!

In a tribe, the tribe is your world (it's all you know and exposed to). Today the world is a billion people. We're surrounded by people we don't care about. We can't be compassionate to everyone. So it all ends up being impersonal

Re: The lost world of physicality

#43

Post by Hisoka »

anamax wrote: post #41
Hisoka wrote: post #25

A side effect of losing touch with the physical world is that it wrecks your brain. You begin to feel isolated from the rest of the world. What doesn't help is the growth of cities, and overpopulation. We start to view other people as competitors and enemies. Have you ever gone through some days when you encounter many people, whether it's in a commute, or whatever and ask why people are so useless in your life? What…

> We start to view other people as competitors and enemies. Hold that thought. > In the past, we had tribes. And different tribes were enemies and competitors. And, if you don't think that there's competition in a tribe of humans, you're claiming that groups of humans are different from every other group of animals. (Simple example - even in tribes, 40% of males don't have genetic children while only 20% of females a…

Yes, true, but you still belong to 1 tribe. Nowadays we're lucky to have anyone besides family, or a S.O. who we consider a tribe. It doesn't help we spread the bulk of our days along people we don't care about too.

Re: The lost world of physicality

#44

Post by swombat »

hessenwolf wrote: post #31
arethuza wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing to note is that access to "wild" land in the UK is generally a lot easier today than it would have been in 1911. The high level population density in the UK is pretty misleading because quite significant chunks of the country are fairly lightly populated - making us all cram into what parts are left (e.g. the Central Belt of Scotland).

Wouldn't that mean the population density is underestimated?

It does, but it means it's also a misleading statistic within the context of this argument, because the high population density (600 people per square mile) would indicate that you can't ever walk 50 meters in one direction without bumping into someone. In fact, you can easily walk miles without meeting anyone - if you go into the countryside. On the other hand, you won't be able to walk anywhere near 50 metres without bumping into someone in a town centre.

Re: The lost world of physicality

#45

Post by lukev »

The trend away from physicality began long before the internet. In fact, the ability to spend mental energy and effort on non-physical things is quite possibly one of the defining features of humanity itself.

Stories, religion, relationships, philosophy, basic societal concepts such as "ownership" or "justice"... all of these are abstractions from physicality. The invention of writing allowed us to make these abstractions even more elaborate, as did the rise of the intellectual class and the invention of printing.

Electronic media is merely the next step on this same journey - it allows us to manipulate and record even more abstract ideas, and communicate them more effectively.

In my humble opinion, although physicality and its accompanying physical experiences are certainly pleasant and integral to the experience of being alive, the ability to form, manipulate and care about non-physical abstractions is one of humanity's most noble defining features, and nothing to be afraid or ashamed of.

Re: The lost world of physicality

#46

Post by ctdonath »

"On the Kindle every book is Twilight."

Struck me in church, standing there reading the Bible from an iPad, that the value of sacred texts may fade or alter, being indistinguishable from any other momentary array of pixels upon a slim universal reader. Being naturally physcial-focused, my toddler children may come to not grasp the "specialness" of some books - where I want them to learn value beyond bits and pixels.

Re: The lost world of physicality

#47

Post by wnight »

Sheesh, what do people have against ebooks? And where do they all get the same fetish for fondling paper?

You can't grep dead trees. Books just aren't as effective. You also can't store tens of thousands of paper books on a tiny USB stick.

Re: The lost world of physicality

#48

Post by [deleted] »

jgrahamc wrote: post #38
sheeps wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another relevant one is E.M. Forster's "The Machine Stops": http://archive.ncsa.illinois.edu/prajlich/forster.html

Thank you both for these suggestions. I recall reading E. M. Forster's story at school and my contribution to English class was that he was wrong about there being a separate button for everything: in reality things would have been multiplexed and the person would have used a keypad or similar :-) I have not read Walden. Will put it on my Kindle.

[deleted]

Re: The lost world of physicality

#49

Post by mixmax »

Some six years ago I bought a boat that I now live on. This means that I'm in daily contact with other people around the harbour that also live on boats. These people are outside a lot, get a lot of exercise (if you've ever owned a boat you'll know how much physical work must be endured to keep it ship-shape), and generally don't sit much behind copmuterscreens.

I've noticed that there are quite a few people that live on boats that are 70+ years old. One of my neighbours, age 69, has just come back from a 2 year solotrip from Denmark to the mediterranean and back. He sailed alone. These people are much more fit than the average 30 year old, and they're having a blast while most other people their age are sitting in a nursinghome.

Anecdotally it seems like a lot of this can be traced back to the hands-on hard outdoor life that keeps you in shape all year round.

So I'd say that getting out is much more important than people think. Especially if you're getting older.

Re: The lost world of physicality

#50

Post by colanderman »

jgrahamc wrote: post #38
sheeps wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another relevant one is E.M. Forster's "The Machine Stops": http://archive.ncsa.illinois.edu/prajlich/forster.html

Thank you both for these suggestions. I recall reading E. M. Forster's story at school and my contribution to English class was that he was wrong about there being a separate button for everything: in reality things would have been multiplexed and the person would have used a keypad or similar :-) I have not read Walden. Will put it on my Kindle.

> I have not read Walden. Will put it on my Kindle.

I recently did the same, and my fiancée won't let me live down the irony.

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