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Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

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Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#231

Post by gumby »

myohmy wrote: post #187
austinl wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, the company I work for shuts our offices down from the 24th to the 2nd. Engineers submit availability for on-call schedules, and get a gift card for each on-call day they're responsible for. I feel very spoiled, but I think this is generally a trend amongst west-coast tech companies? I've had a similar experience at previous places, and it seemed like the rationale for the holiday…

My employer does this, and is the only one in town who does. It isn't deducted from our 4 week of vacation either. Its the only reason I stick around despite subpar pay. It turns out the HR books are right and pay isn't the primary consideration after a certain point. The problem is that most HR people take that and say, "We're already soooo generous, we already offer unlimited vacation (lol), so we don't have to pay…

> we already offer unlimited vacation (lol),

I offered unlimited vacation in every business I started or ran since 1989.

But the abusive bullshit many companies have pulled while claiming “unlimited vacation” has justifiably made people cynical. This stated policy has become a warning sign instead of a benefit.

So in my new company we have a written policy four weeks but there is no way to track it (where the law permits this). sigh

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#232

Post by xapata »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #93
austinl wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, the company I work for shuts our offices down from the 24th to the 2nd. Engineers submit availability for on-call schedules, and get a gift card for each on-call day they're responsible for. I feel very spoiled, but I think this is generally a trend amongst west-coast tech companies? I've had a similar experience at previous places, and it seemed like the rationale for the holiday…

As long as "elsewhere" is SV or some other big city, that grass will never be green enough for me.

> corporate slave-driving overlords

> big city, that grass will never be green enough for me

Take your pick, I guess. I like cities, and I certainly don't want to feel like I'm a slave.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#233

Post by midasuni »

throwawayboise wrote: post #63
jedberg wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In an ideal spherical cow world, having no minimum wage would work exactly as you describe. In the real world, that's you how get slavery. For many reasons, not everyone has a choice to turn down a $1/hr job.

Where I am McDonalds is begging for people to work at $15/hr. How would they even think about paying less?

Why aren’t they offering $20 an hour?

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#234

Post by xapata »

midasuni wrote: post #210
loonster wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If no jobs exist at all those voters will bring in someone who will tax companies like yours and spread the wealth. And those companies will calculate the ROI for moving into a lower tax burdensome area. After the company leaves the people wont have a job or the tax revenue.

Which is why all companies move to Somalia rather than say California

No one lives in California; it's too crowded.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#235

Post by lfowles »

nradov wrote: post #202
a_c_s wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does shutting down the office remove PTO obligations? I worked at a company where we had 10 days of vacation + the office shut down for the last week of the year. Nobody had to use vacation time during that 1-week shutdown. If anything, it increased PTO accrued obligations because nobody had to use their PTO for time off during that week.

It varies by company. Accrued PTO is carried on the balance sheet as a liability, since it's owned to employees and would generally have to be paid out in cash if the employee is terminated. Reducing that liability makes several financial metrics look better. Some companies shut down for a week and require employees to use up their accrued PTO (or take unpaid leave). Other companies give it "free" essentially as comp…

Worked at a company that would do that (using PTO or unpaid) with a couple months notice.. really messes with any vacation plans you might have made before you've been there long enough to accrue significant PTO!

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#236

Post by throwaway803453 »

wayoutthere wrote: post #195
throwaway803453 wrote: post #27

FWH has exposed how many white-collar jobs were only full-time in the ass-in-seat sense and how many employees should have Professional Meeting Attender as their job title. I used to be the guy who would champion efficient meeting practices. Now it's the last thing I want given that I can now work-out, make breakfast, do manual labor, etc., while listening to meeting. 4 day work week in grasp you ask ? For many I'd b…

> I'd employ a contractor who has to itemize their invoice. As a contractor, I would just charge you for the time it takes to itemize an invoice while I do it sitting on a call for another job I’m also billing for. And I would be very thorough with my itemization so you know exactly what you’re getting… The non-itemized invoice is free. We can argue over contract terms if you want to or come to an arrangement if you…

Here's what my invoice looks like for today

0.5hr chats, code reviews, time-audit

1.25hr Bug#12345

...

So I have captured the ~15 minutes I spent itemizing/cleaning up my invoice for the past day or two in a "time-audit"/misc line item.

"very thorough with my itemization" implying you'll just over bill your customer because they have the nerve to have you professionally account for your time ?

"tipped the balance of power from the money men to the workers"

Right so if they weren't operating with integrity that doesn't mean the worker shouldn't either. Tit-fot-tat might be an optimal game theory but better to optimize for a clear conscience.

Note, I realize I am being unfair to your comment. When my customer first asked me to itemize my invoice it was an annoyance, but now I am efficient at it and see it as win-win. I just keep adding to it in real time as I work through out the day and then do a periodic clean up and aggregation.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#237

Post by commandlinefan »

austinl wrote: post #61
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #6

I'm currently working for a company that forces office staff to work a half day on christmas eve with the additional stipulation, of course, that you must burn a full day of vacation to skip it. This despite the fact that no one in the company can ever remember a customer calling on christmas eve. So I'm very skeptical that this trend will grow. It took the IWW to get us the concepts of The Weekend and Sick Days, and…

On the opposite end of the spectrum, the company I work for shuts our offices down from the 24th to the 2nd. Engineers submit availability for on-call schedules, and get a gift card for each on-call day they're responsible for. I feel very spoiled, but I think this is generally a trend amongst west-coast tech companies? I've had a similar experience at previous places, and it seemed like the rationale for the holiday…

> On the opposite end of the spectrum

I'm so stockholm-syndromed into typical corporate apathy, I'd probably feel so weirded out if I found out myself in such an environment I wouldn't be able to handle it like somebody who spent 50 years in prison is unable to cope with the reality of life on the outside.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#238

Post by EastSmith »

irrational wrote: post #212

My company typically gives everyone half days on Fridays from Memorial Day to Labor Day (and most people only put in a token amount of work - if that - on those Fridays - no meetings are allowed to be scheduled on any Friday of the year). This year, in addition to that, they gave everyone every Friday off for the month of July. And... the company still functioned just fine. We run on sprints and we finished just as m…

Similar thing - half of the year now with no meeting Fridays & 4hrs Fridays.

This gets extended month to month based on performance, so it could stop, but if they stop it I will really try to find a job where they do a similar thing.

No meetings on Friday means that in four hours you can do as much as with normal Friday but with meetings (given the meetings produce 0 value, which is not the case of course, but also sometimes the meetings could have been an email, a tweet, or a joke).

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#239

Post by iggldiggl »

tombert wrote: post #110

My dad, my sister, and sister in law all work for Lockheed Martin and they do the 4-10 schedule: 4 days a week, ten hours a day, and they get every Friday off. I'm a little jealous of it, honestly; it's pretty rare that I work less than ten hours a day anyway, so I think economically it would be better for me.

Is that ten hours including lunch break (and if yes, how much?), or not?

Based on the stereotypical 9-to-5 office job in the UK or elsewhere, a "40" hour work week in those countries must obviously include some amount of paid lunch break (at a guess at least half an hour, maybe even one hour, giving somewhere between 35 and at worst 37.5 actually worked hours)

In Germany on the other hand lunch breaks are typically unpaid, so 40 hours means 40 actually worked hours, plus however long your lunch break is (at least half an hour is the legal minimum when working between six and nine hours per day).

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#240

Post by skrtskrt »

gumby wrote: post #231
myohmy wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My employer does this, and is the only one in town who does. It isn't deducted from our 4 week of vacation either. Its the only reason I stick around despite subpar pay. It turns out the HR books are right and pay isn't the primary consideration after a certain point. The problem is that most HR people take that and say, "We're already soooo generous, we already offer unlimited vacation (lol), so we don't have to pay…

> we already offer unlimited vacation (lol), I offered unlimited vacation in every business I started or ran since 1989. But the abusive bullshit many companies have pulled while claiming “unlimited vacation” has justifiably made people cynical. This stated policy has become a warning sign instead of a benefit. So in my new company we have a written policy four weeks but there is no way to track it (where the law per…

I have worked 3 places with unlimited vacation, and there was zero pressure to not take vacation.

One company specifically said they we needed to get our asses out of the office because they saw people not taking at least 3 weeks a year.

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