Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp? • Hacker News Board

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#61

Post by austinl » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 6:16 PM UTC

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #6

I'm currently working for a company that forces office staff to work a half day on christmas eve with the additional stipulation, of course, that you must burn a full day of vacation to skip it. This despite the fact that no one in the company can ever remember a customer calling on christmas eve. So I'm very skeptical that this trend will grow. It took the IWW to get us the concepts of The Weekend and Sick Days, and…

On the opposite end of the spectrum, the company I work for shuts our offices down from the 24th to the 2nd. Engineers submit availability for on-call schedules, and get a gift card for each on-call day they're responsible for. I feel very spoiled, but I think this is generally a trend amongst west-coast tech companies?

I've had a similar experience at previous places, and it seemed like the rationale for the holiday shutdown was "we don't want to risk any downtime while lots of engineers are out and potentially unreachable if something breaks". All that is to say, if it's within your power to leave, the grass is potentially much greener elsewhere.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#62

Post by devin » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 6:20 PM UTC

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #31

willheis wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously on-call has to cover holidays but Christmas eve is a work day for everyone (in an office) at your company? Why stay? That is simply barbaric

As with all things, it's about trade-offs. As much as I dislike this company for its policies towards time off and butts-in-seats[0], I am not on-call and am never obligated to answer my phone outside of work, no one bats an eye at me taking a few hours to make an appointment every now and then, I don't hate my manager or coworkers, and generally little is expected of me which suits me fine because I haven't found IT…

As they wrote, barbaric.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#63

Post by throwawayboise » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 6:22 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #57

trcarney wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I personally believe that the government should focus on a shorter workweek rather than minimum wage increases in the near term. The government being involved is the most likely answer as to why a 40 hour work week is standard and why there are so many "minimum wage" jobs. A funny thing happens when you set floors or ceilings in markets, you hit them. There should be no minimum wage. People excepting jobs will set t…

In an ideal spherical cow world, having no minimum wage would work exactly as you describe. In the real world, that's you how get slavery. For many reasons, not everyone has a choice to turn down a $1/hr job.

Where I am McDonalds is begging for people to work at $15/hr. How would they even think about paying less?

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#64

Post by mrweasel » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 6:23 PM UTC

helij wrote: post #36

I took a new position in March this year and only accepted it after they agreed to 4 day workweek. I took 20% pay cut. One of the best decisions I made in my life. I wish all people who can, to do this. There's nothing you'll miss on Friday or any other weekday and so much to gain.

Most of my colleagues, and myself, could easily take a 20% without a noticeable impact to quality of life. That's also a problem, if we where allowed to make that trade, I believe that most would.

If, as others have seen, productivity goes up, then it might not matter. It's a risky bet for companies with highly paid staff.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#65

Post by cultofmetatron » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 6:24 PM UTC

azinman2 wrote: post #12

teawrecks wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure would be a shame if the employees collectively bargained with the company for more reasonable policies...

Yup… because their jobs may then go abroad as has been the trend for the past 20 years…

Some of my best (ie: most profitable per hour jobs) were rescuing projects that were sent abroad.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#66

Post by cherrycherry98 » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 6:24 PM UTC

I always found this quote from The Wealth of Nations to be quite insightful and was one of those surprising moments reading the actual text:

"It will be found, I believe, in every sort of trade, that the man who works so moderately, as to be able to work constantly, not only preserves his health the longest, but, in the course of the year, executes the greatest quantity of work."

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#67

Post by bradjohnson » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 6:24 PM UTC

Tarsul wrote: post #24

vitno wrote: post #16

4 day work weeks as a concept real clicked for me when put into ratios. It's a 50% increase in personal time and only a 20% reduction in work hours.

and less than 20% in net income lost (due to income taxes usually being progressive).

Why should there be any loss in income?

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#68

Post by mrweasel » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 6:25 PM UTC

icedchai wrote: post #30

wayoutthere wrote: post #11

I work a 4 day week; just don’t tell my boss.

You and everyone else "working from home."

You joke, I assume. My boss was notoriously against working from home. COVID proved him VERY wrong. People where just as effective, if not more. They where much more flexible with customer. It doesn't matter that a client ask you to say a bit longer, if you're already home and have everything set up.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#69

Post by mlyle » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 6:26 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #32

mlyle wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally believe that the government should focus on a shorter workweek rather than minimum wage increases in the near term. If we shorten the nominal workweek to 36 hours before overtime is required (and encourage this to be in the form of 4x9 or 9/2 * 8): * Supply of labor will fall, increasing equilibrium pay for everyone * Everyone's quality of life goes up * Traffic and environmental impacts from commuting s…

You need both: A minimum wage ensures a wage of enough income someone can pay for basic needs (housing, food, health, etc) and ratcheting down the work week distributes productivity gains of capital to workers in aggregate. The former is, arguably, more tenable politically at the moment ("Fight for $15" and so on), the latter likely in the future as the electorate (and the beliefs around work and its contribution to…

I agree that one needs both and that they serve complementary purposes.

But a minimum wage is useful to the extent that there are jobs for your lowest skill, least desirable workers. And ensuring that may take reducing the work week.

Re: Is the four-day workweek finally within our grasp?

#70

Post by xhrpost » Wed, Dec 01, 2021, 6:26 PM UTC

I'd like to point out a less popular point that the FDWW does not lie only with employers improving but also is the decision of individuals. I remember reading somewhere about a survey where they asked people what they would do if they had 1 extra day every week (so, 8 days). The response on average was "that would be great because I could get so much more done". Now the "so much done" may not be for primary employer, but the point is that people say they would spend more time with friends and family, if they had more time, but when offered, we don't take the opportunity.

My point is, even if we did reduce our primary employment to 4 days, there are still a lot of people who will simply take this as an opportunity to work an additional part time job or side hustle. Then the bar for standard of living rises with them and we're back to where we started. Until we actually value rest, relationships etc, the maximal output mindset will endure.