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Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

reuters.com

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Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#141

Post by clukic »

teeray wrote: post #54
mattzito wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that the role of the CMS, as established by congress, is to set the guidelines of care and standards of participation for providers who opt to accept Medicare and Medicaid patients. They set rules for everything from how many hospitals can be owned by a single entity, to what sorts of qualifications are required for hospital administrators, to what types of medical orders are allowed to be given to patients. T…

Sure, that’s the loophole. What’s happening here is yet another end-run around the democratic process. People are tired of emergency powers, executive orders, and delegated authority being used to enact some of the most impactful laws of our time. We want the Schoolhouse Rock version of law-making because we at least get something of a say in it.

Should Congress also pass laws regarding which vaccines are mandated for military personal serving in which areas of the world? For example, if the risk of yellow fever increases in Yemen, should Congress pass a law requiring special forces deployed in that area must acquire the vaccine? Or should that decision be left to the appointed heads of those branches of the military?

https://usarmybasic.com/about-the-army/army-shots

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#142

Post by Chris2048 »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #95

Rules and laws. The virus does not care about these. At all. It does not care about your race, it does not care about your age. It doesn't care about your employment status, gender, religion, disability, nationality, wealth, or anything else. All it cares about is if it can replicate. As we debate and discuss and argue if laws and rules are justified or not, the virus simply ignores everything and does what it has be…

What has this got to do with anything? Beating a straw man "the virus will wait for legislation" while implying all the "debate and discuss" isn't important.

Also, the virus does care about the things you mention, insofar as they affect infection vectors i.e. If you don't have the power to avoid situations that put you at risk.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#143

Post by tfehring »

loudtieblahblah wrote: post #110
yissp wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having had an abortion doesn't affect your ability to safely do your job. Being unvaccinated does.

does being vaccinated stop you from spreading it to your co-workers? what about all the WFH people mandated into vaccines? how does it impact that employer?

> does being vaccinated stop you from spreading it to your co-workers?

It significantly reduces the likelihood that you spread it to your coworkers (and, perhaps more importantly, to the old and sick people that healthcare workers tend to serve). https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.09.28.21264260v...

> what about all the WFH people mandated into vaccines? how does it impact that employer?

Obviously vaccine requirements for remote workers don't make a ton of sense in principle, but in practice I worry that an exemption for remote employees would result in a lot of people getting mis-coded (intentionally or otherwise) as remote and ultimately showing up at work unvaccinated and putting vulnerable people at risk.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#144

Post by crazy1van »

redblacktree wrote: post #105
teeray wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, that’s the loophole. What’s happening here is yet another end-run around the democratic process. People are tired of emergency powers, executive orders, and delegated authority being used to enact some of the most impactful laws of our time. We want the Schoolhouse Rock version of law-making because we at least get something of a say in it.

Congress has delegated the authority to make these decisions to regulatory agencies. If congress wants that authority back, they can get it back via legislation. The responsibility for the current situation starts and stops with congress. The executive branch is doing what congress has asked it to do, and the executive branch would stop doing those things the moment that congress legislated the authority back to them…

> Congress has delegated the authority to make these decisions to regulatory agencies

Yes, but at some point there must be a limit to how much power they can delegate. If Congress created a new Super-Congress that it granted all the powers of Congress, I would contend that would be unconstitutional. It clearly goes against the founding principles of having three branches of government. That would be akin to the government creating a fourth branch without amending the constitution.

Amending the constitution is a process that is clearly defined by the constitution. If that process isn't needed to create a fourth branch of government, a change that changes the core of the constitution, what would it ever be needed for and why would they have included it?

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#145

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

roamerz wrote: post #120
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any laws that don't infringe on someone's freedoms in some manner? Speeding, theft, discrimination, environmental protections, that's all infringing on one party's freedoms for the protection of themselves or others. That's basically what a law does, it restricts some form of freedom in an effort to provide some form of safety or equity.

There are plenty of laws that affect someone’s freedom as you pointed out. I’m talking about Constitutional rights such as free speech or the right to bear arms. If you don’t agree with those provisions there is a method to change them and too often short cuts are made that are only corrected after the fact in the courts. Take for instance Biden's vaccine mandate. He knew that was unlawful yet he knowingly did it any…

Ah, ok, those aren't freedoms, those are right. You started talking about rights and then started saying freedom, so I was confused. Especially when you talked about having fewer laws because of it.

And I don't believe if the precedent is set regarding freedom from vaccinations being a fundamental right. Won't that have to be decided by the higher level courts? I don't think we're at that stage of treason yet, are we? After all, there will be appeals, and I don't know if a district judge should have the power to charge and punish POTUS.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#148

Post by [deleted] »

bko wrote: post #32
mattzito wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that the role of the CMS, as established by congress, is to set the guidelines of care and standards of participation for providers who opt to accept Medicare and Medicaid patients. They set rules for everything from how many hospitals can be owned by a single entity, to what sorts of qualifications are required for hospital administrators, to what types of medical orders are allowed to be given to patients. T…

> to what types of medical orders are allowed to be given to patients Suppose an anti-abortion president gets elected and he elects someone as head and tells them that health care providers that accept medicare or medicaid cannot provide abortions. Not making it illegal per-se, but just for the providers that accept medicare or medicaid for any of their services. You okay with this as well?

[deleted]

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#149

Post by dham »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #95

Rules and laws. The virus does not care about these. At all. It does not care about your race, it does not care about your age. It doesn't care about your employment status, gender, religion, disability, nationality, wealth, or anything else. All it cares about is if it can replicate. As we debate and discuss and argue if laws and rules are justified or not, the virus simply ignores everything and does what it has be…

I mean it does care about your age and your weight because it in 80% of the hospitalizations and deaths this is the reason of complications.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#150

Post by Isthatablackgsd »

cies wrote: post #100
adrr wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banning health care providers from abortion would be unconstitutional. It would be the same as a president banning health care providers from serving muslims. Women have a constitutional right to get an abortion. People don't have a constitutional right to not vaccinate. Government can and has jailed and/or fined people for not getting a vaccine. These SCOTUS approved mandates helped rid America of smallpox.

> Banning health care providers from abortion would be unconstitutional. Forcing care workers to take a medicine against their will is constitutional you say? All medical procedures should be voluntary, or we go back to the times of lobotomy and forced sterilizations of minorities (and that's not as many decades back as you may think). > Government can and has jailed and/or fined people for not getting a vaccine. Thi…

> Forcing care workers to take a medicine against their will is constitutional you say?

They are not forced to take the medicine. They are given an choice to take the vaccine or find another job. If they refused to take the vaccine, that is their choice, period. They cannot claimed they are being forced because they are given an choice in the first place. They are given a free will with their decision. Thousands of Thousands people screeching for being forced when they are given a choice. Society don’t have to conform to those people who want to endanger their people and their livelihood.

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