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Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

reuters.com

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Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#71

Post by tfehring »

loudtieblahblah wrote: post #59
belltaco wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are healthcare workers. Jobs have requirements. They're free to quit instead of increasing the dangers of disease for their sick and older patients who are at highest risk for covid. No one is controlling their body any more than making it show up at work in order to get paid. Coal miners are forced to work in dangerous conditions around the world in order to keep their job. Getting a vaccine is far less risk,…

so you'd be cool with employers banning employees who get an abortion. something, something, consequences.

If having had an abortion materially negatively impacted a healthcare worker's ability to safely provide healthcare to a sick person, then yes, that should probably be grounds for disallowing those people from working as healthcare practitioners. Thankfully that's not the case.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#72

Post by 988747 »

JasonFruit wrote: post #46
kspacewalk2 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Garbage ruling from the least democratic branch of government in the US. Is... that meant to be a bad thing? Yes, judicial branch should not be directly accountable to voters. In fact, as a Canadian, I find the idea of electing judges to be so thoroughly strange that it almost defies belief. Why the hell would you want your judicial branch to be "democratic", as in directly and immediately beholden to the whims of t…

In Wisconsin, where I live, certain judicial offices are elected. Judicial elections are as nakedly partisan as you might fear, and it fosters no confidence in the impartiality of the judiciary. Based on my understanding (as a generally conservative libertarian), many decisions are predicated on conservative political promises and ideology, rather than any sound legal reasoning.

But at least you know judges political affiliation, officially. The worst thing is when judges try to hide it, pretending to be impartial, objective, basically demigods free of typical human flaws.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#73

Post by adrr »

bko wrote: post #32
mattzito wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that the role of the CMS, as established by congress, is to set the guidelines of care and standards of participation for providers who opt to accept Medicare and Medicaid patients. They set rules for everything from how many hospitals can be owned by a single entity, to what sorts of qualifications are required for hospital administrators, to what types of medical orders are allowed to be given to patients. T…

> to what types of medical orders are allowed to be given to patients Suppose an anti-abortion president gets elected and he elects someone as head and tells them that health care providers that accept medicare or medicaid cannot provide abortions. Not making it illegal per-se, but just for the providers that accept medicare or medicaid for any of their services. You okay with this as well?

Banning health care providers from abortion would be unconstitutional. It would be the same as a president banning health care providers from serving muslims. Women have a constitutional right to get an abortion. People don't have a constitutional right to not vaccinate. Government can and has jailed and/or fined people for not getting a vaccine. These SCOTUS approved mandates helped rid America of smallpox.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#74

Post by [deleted] »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #60
bko wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to what types of medical orders are allowed to be given to patients Suppose an anti-abortion president gets elected and he elects someone as head and tells them that health care providers that accept medicare or medicaid cannot provide abortions. Not making it illegal per-se, but just for the providers that accept medicare or medicaid for any of their services. You okay with this as well?

> Suppose an anti-abortion president gets elected and he elects someone as head and tells them that health care providers that accept medicare or medicaid cannot provide abortions Not comparable. Based on current law, abortion is a Constitutionally-protected right. Based on precedent from the Spanish-flu era, the government has broad public health powers. All that said, as someone who isn’t a fan of how much power Co…

[deleted]

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#75

Post by spiderice »

0xB31B1B wrote: post #7

Garbage ruling from the least democratic branch of government in the US. The whole project of "dismantling the administrative state" of which this decision rolls up to is absolutely insane in 2021 and will lead this country to a path of ruin. This decision is part of a much larger play by Federalist Society judges to remove the ability of our government to do virtually anything.

The “least democratic branch”, as you say, just blocked a very undemocratic order in favor of just using the democratic process and going through congress.

Not sure what you’re complaining about. You seem to both want more and less democracy at the same time. Just because the president is elected doesn’t make him a king, and doesn’t make anything he does democratic.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#76

Post by tiahura »

kiba wrote: post #53
roamerz wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except this isn’t about almost anything else. This is about control over one’s body. This is from someone who chose freely to get the vaccine. Even at my own peril I support other’s freedom to choose.

Your freedom to control over one's body ends when it comes to the safety and health of other people's bodies. That's why herd immunity is a thing.

“herd immunity is a thing.”

It is? By Easter right? With what other coronavirus have we ever reached herd immunity?

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#77

Post by rubyist5eva »

0xB31B1B wrote: post #7

Garbage ruling from the least democratic branch of government in the US. The whole project of "dismantling the administrative state" of which this decision rolls up to is absolutely insane in 2021 and will lead this country to a path of ruin. This decision is part of a much larger play by Federalist Society judges to remove the ability of our government to do virtually anything.

Good. Courts aren't democratic on purpose, they exist to interpret the law as enacted. "The courts should rule based solely on what the law says and not what some people with an agenda wish it meant" shouldn't be a partisan issue but apparently it is these days.

If you don't like the law, get Congress to change it.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#78

Post by joshuamorton »

loudtieblahblah wrote: post #59
belltaco wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are healthcare workers. Jobs have requirements. They're free to quit instead of increasing the dangers of disease for their sick and older patients who are at highest risk for covid. No one is controlling their body any more than making it show up at work in order to get paid. Coal miners are forced to work in dangerous conditions around the world in order to keep their job. Getting a vaccine is far less risk,…

so you'd be cool with employers banning employees who get an abortion. something, something, consequences.

That's actually quite likely legal already.

If expect there are certain Catholic organizations who would fire you if you admitted to having had an abortion.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#79

Post by yissp »

loudtieblahblah wrote: post #59
belltaco wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These are healthcare workers. Jobs have requirements. They're free to quit instead of increasing the dangers of disease for their sick and older patients who are at highest risk for covid. No one is controlling their body any more than making it show up at work in order to get paid. Coal miners are forced to work in dangerous conditions around the world in order to keep their job. Getting a vaccine is far less risk,…

so you'd be cool with employers banning employees who get an abortion. something, something, consequences.

Having had an abortion doesn't affect your ability to safely do your job. Being unvaccinated does.

Re: Courts block two Biden administration Covid vaccine mandates

#80

Post by crisdux »

kiba wrote: post #53
roamerz wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except this isn’t about almost anything else. This is about control over one’s body. This is from someone who chose freely to get the vaccine. Even at my own peril I support other’s freedom to choose.

Your freedom to control over one's body ends when it comes to the safety and health of other people's bodies. That's why herd immunity is a thing.

The case for that line of reasoning is extremely weak given that vaccines provide dramatically low protection against infection and vaccinated people also infect others at high rates.
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