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Microsoft UI has officially entered the realm of self-parody

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Re: Microsoft UI has officially entered the realm of self-parody

#221
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting on a plane would be a fairly common use case, and independent of the 'power' level of the user. Disclaimer: I don't own an iOS device, so don't know how intuitive it might or might not be.

Well, for plane use, it has "Airplane Mode" as the first option of the Settings app, so at least for that it's covered.

But airplanes have wifi now, so you can still want the cell radio off and have the wifi on. Yup, it's complicated. The world is a complicated place.

Re: Microsoft UI has officially entered the realm of self-parody

#222
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say you're out of luck then. What good are those mkv files if you don't have an app to read them? There are a lot of things I'm used to doing on a computer that I can't do on an iPad. Everyone has their examples of things that make X inferior to Y. Apple has shown that they can be successful by offering less of "business as usual" while slowly introducing new ways of doing things. The only way to advance the…

I would say you're out of luck then. What good are those mkv files if you don't have an app to read them? I have a really nice app to read them called Media Player Classic -- I just don't have an app to manage them. Writing apps to manage every single file type I have is very inefficient compared to using a general purpose file manager. You abstract out often-used code rather than copy-pasting it all over the place,…

I have an application to manage movie files. It's called UNIX.

Re: Microsoft UI has officially entered the realm of self-parody

#223
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most "normals" I interact with are beginners every time they use the computer . They are not comfortable discovering anything. I can teach them something and be confident in them forgetting it by the next time I talk to them. Things like moving files around directories is black magic to them. Directories are black magic to them. The problem I see with this solution is two-fold: 1. The people who understand this stuff…

Oh my. That reminded me of a colleague of mine who thought I was doing "black magic" when I converted from "text to columns" in Excel. Guess what, she has a PhD in Geography. That really emphasizes your point. For me, the problem with the ribbon has been (the times I tried to use Office 2010) that there are some more "advanced" commands (like, inserting a cross-reference to a Figure or Table) which became quite hidde…

Ummm... do you realize that what you described is exactly the function of the Quick Access toolbar?

Also, do you realize that the Ribbon is customizable in Office 2010, in the same way toolbars were customizable in Office pre-2007?

Re: Microsoft UI has officially entered the realm of self-parody

#224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

". I also try to keep in mind that I'm not typical. ... So when I judge a UI I literally stick my Mom on it... she's 68" Well she no more typical a computer user than you are I would think. I like to see a curve of typical computer users age distribution (but I understand it would be a little skewed if it's hard for the older generations to use computers). I feel that ribbon is designed for a select group of new user…

The only thing I felt missing that I needed from OSX Finder is "Rename All". Do you have any other examples of this?

Cut and pasting files would be useful, but that's about all I miss.

Re: Microsoft UI has officially entered the realm of self-parody

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing I felt missing that I needed from OSX Finder is "Rename All". Do you have any other examples of this?

Cut and pasting files would be useful, but that's about all I miss.

In Lion, after copying a file in Finder, you have available both Paste and Move.

Re: Microsoft UI has officially entered the realm of self-parody

#226
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you consider that you haven't missed these things because you aren't used to using them?

No, I don't think so. Every function given by this ribbon is available in Finder without buttons. I can give you the steps, if you'd like.

If you have to explain steps to me then it isn't working like MS are discussing here. The whole point is that no-one needs to give you steps.

Re: Microsoft UI has officially entered the realm of self-parody

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And your suggestion is? How is the ribbon any different to a hierarchial menu bar? (See the Gnome drop-down menu or the iOS Settings Menu).

The problem has more to do with the excessive number of available commands. My suggestion is to cut the clutter and avoid hierarchical UI elements altogether, regardless of their nature.

So we're limited to either only exposing a dozen operations or somehow shoving 200 operations into a flat UI? This seems to be rather unrealistic.

Re: Microsoft UI has officially entered the realm of self-parody

#228
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do those users use the desktop shell at all though? In my experience with novice users (across platforms: Mac noobs are no better) is that they only know enough to launch apps. They never touch the desktop integration at all.

This is only because the Finder/Explorer has been made harder and harder to use. Apple's OSX Finder is a shocking UI abomination. Their old MacOS Finder was clear and simple - my wife would spend hours arranging her work in coloured folders, each of which opened in a window whose shape and position she had chosen, and was meaningful to her. It was a powerful tool that enabled her to arrange and group her work. Now, b…

Are you talking about spatial mode? That still exists in Finder. Just hit Cmd+Opt+T or select "Hide Toolbars" from the View menu.

You're absolutely right. I don't have the citation on me right now, but spatial mode has been found to be easier to grasp for new users in every single test ever. The only reason it was dropped was because (1) Windows Explorer, (2) power users whined about too many open windows and (3) a lot of people got used to URLs opening in the same window thanks to web browsers, so people sought to apply the same principles to file browsers.

Spatial mode used to be default on GNOME for a long time. There, too, it was dropped because of the same reasons.

See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spatial_file_manager and http://www.bytebot.net/geekdocs/spatial-nautilus.html

Re: Microsoft UI has officially entered the realm of self-parody

#229
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

agree, in fact UI like this encourages a user to develop bad usage habits, which will remain with them for an indefinite amount of time until these behaviors are (if ever) unlearned.

What are bad usage habits? (since we're on topic: I'm an MS employee. I do not work on Windows Explorer)

I'm guessing riffic meant using the copy and paste buttons instead of the keyboard shortcuts, but I don't agree that that is a "bad usage habit".

Re: Microsoft UI has officially entered the realm of self-parody

#230

Disclaimer: I'm a Windows and Mac OS X "power user" and I'm going to be rather critical of Apple who are seen as at the forefront of UI design. I'm probably going to get voted down for this. I'm a proponent of the Ribbon UI and I fucking hate toolbars in OS X. I use Outlook, Word, Excel and Windows Live Mail extensively. All of which have the ribbon UI. It turns out that for the sake of actually getting stuff done, t…

Clearly you're not a Mac OS X "power user" as you claim to be, because you seem to be ignorant of very basic Mac OS features, like enabling text labels for the toolbar.
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