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AWS Private 5G

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Re: AWS Private 5G

#231

Post by vineyardmike »

nicce wrote: post #134
vineyardmike wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you buy a consumer IoT product and not connect it to the internet? If you’re the kind of person who fears that, you’re probably not the person who uses something like Alexa and smart home stuff.

If the device has not easily removable battery, it starts to be impossible to tell when it collects the data and shares it. Many devices are useful in the local network only, but still they want all-time internet access without real need. Using direct 5G links make it also harder to filter traffic. I don't know, I just don't like the idea that all information must be collected by any means.

> Many devices are useful in the local network only

no amazon-made device is local only.

> I just don't like the idea that all information must be collected by any means.

I agree with your sentiment, but most devices don't really have access to much data of concern. I'd be more worried 5g bullshit is used in screens that can send ads over a smart bulb or something.

Re: AWS Private 5G

#232

Post by delabay »

solarkraft wrote: post #224
2bluesc wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Helium is (initially) focused on shipping a LoRaWAN[0] network with a crowd sourced model for Lora RF hotspots that uses blockchain for to pay incentives to those supporting the network (via hardware, power, bandwidth). LoRaWAN focuses on low power, very low bandwidth, long range devices like sensor networks and simple controls. Nearest competitor to Helium's LoRaWAN deployment that I'm aware of is The Things Network…

> Coolest thing about the Helium LoRaWAN offering is that you can buy a $20 ESP32 microcontroller with Lora radio on Amazon, write some software, buy Helium data credits and use it anywhere helium has coverage. Or just go with the free TTN. But I do agree that it's good to have icentives and I'm quite glad somebody is rolling out a large scale LoRaWAN.

Helium has better coverage than TTN by orders of magnitude. I have an environmental sensor which reports every 15 minutes and $1 pays for years of data transfer.

Re: AWS Private 5G

#233

Post by olyjohn »

aero-glide2 wrote: post #69
technobabbler wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this solves the last-mile problem. You still have to provide (get) internet connectivity; Amazon just relays that landline to 5G. And in rural areas, 5G probably doesn't give you enough range anyhow. Have you considered mesh revenue-share networks like Althea ( https://www.althea.net/ )? There's a nonprofit one too operating in several cities, but I can't remember what it's called.

Starlink could be that backhaul. Future terminals will have 1Gbps.

You don't even need that much bandwidth. I had no problem doing LTE over WiFi with a 1Mbit DSL line, with like 256k up on a good day.

Re: AWS Private 5G

#234

Post by ineedasername »

WORMS_EAT_WORMS wrote: post #129

Become a telecom as a service! Super cool. For those who are glancing over, this is a big deal. 5G isn't really like 4G upgraded. It's more its own thing. I believe this has been available though for a while and many telecoms have partnerships with FAANG beyond Amazon. With 5G you can essentially split a network into multiple partitions and scale them independently on-demand called Network Slicing. (like cloud comput…

>Uber offering free fast Internet to their drivers

Amazon is talking about installing actual local hardware infrastructure here though. It seems like that only makes sense where there is no existing 5G, otherwise it's probably just cheaper to use the telco's infrastructure since, as you said, they could work directly with the telco to get their own slice.

Sort of like the difference in price between a dedicated hosted server (the AWS 5G) and a VPS (a slice of the telco's 5G)

I'm sure I'm misunderstanding some aspect of this whole thing though.

Re: AWS Private 5G

#235

Post by toomuchtodo »

vineyardmike wrote: post #229
toomuchtodo wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't have the margins to make it attractive. An M2M/IoT MVNO though? That'd be cool to see, more competition in the space drives down prices.

Yea because amazon isn't used to entering markets with small margins. /s

If mean, if AWS is dragging retail fulfillment around, do they need more anchors around their neck? Operating a nationwide cellular carrier is HARD, even when dumping the capex on tower management REITs and outsourcing all of your cellular infra to Ericsson. Seems easier to write a check and plug into someone else doing the schlep (ATT is best suited for this imho), maybe buy Twilio and have them do it.

Re: AWS Private 5G

#236

Post by spookthesunset »

ribosometronome wrote: post #141
WORMS_EAT_WORMS wrote: post #129

Become a telecom as a service! Super cool. For those who are glancing over, this is a big deal. 5G isn't really like 4G upgraded. It's more its own thing. I believe this has been available though for a while and many telecoms have partnerships with FAANG beyond Amazon. With 5G you can essentially split a network into multiple partitions and scale them independently on-demand called Network Slicing. (like cloud comput…

Please excuse my vast ignorance but wouldn't Tesla, Uber or whomever need to deploy a massive network of 5g towers for that? Or is more that Tesla/Uber/etc could much more easily become an MVNO-like-provider because of network slicing?

For those at home reading this... MVNO = "Mobile Virtual Network Operator". Aka a network that doesn't have its own wireless infrastructure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_virtual_network_operato...

Re: AWS Private 5G

#237

Post by delabay »

paxys wrote: post #56
epa wrote: post #48

How does this compare to Helium 5G? https://www.helium.com/5G

The biggest difference seems to be that aside from dropping some buzzwords like blockchain that page gives no description for what Helium 5G actually is or what the intended use cases for it are.

Helium 5G will become a large neutral host carrier for mobile using CBRS bands. Meaning that major network operators, or MVNOs, are the real customer.

The way this works is Helium hardware owner/operators deploy CBRS radios in whatever real estate assets they have at their disposal, then Helium or the Helium OEM partners with MNO/MVNO to offload data at a very cheap rate, and suddenly the carrier can grow network coverage at zero capex and low opex and the Helium node owner has a new source of revenue which was never before possible.

They also open the door to become a semi-private network infrastructure too, which would be in competition with this new Amazon product.

Re: AWS Private 5G

#238

Post by vineyardmike »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #235
vineyardmike wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yea because amazon isn't used to entering markets with small margins. /s

If mean, if AWS is dragging retail fulfillment around, do they need more anchors around their neck? Operating a nationwide cellular carrier is HARD, even when dumping the capex on tower management REITs and outsourcing all of your cellular infra to Ericsson. Seems easier to write a check and plug into someone else doing the schlep (ATT is best suited for this imho), maybe buy Twilio and have them do it.

Retail is basically cost-neutral at this point. I have a theory that they operate at a loss just to avoid taxes (because that delta is basically free) and spend that to stay extra competitive.

Amazon's whole MO is huge CapEx and selling it for cash flow. If they have the credit, why not finance it. They're already building satellite ground stations and a fleet to beam internet down to earth, this could easily supplement or build a market for that.

They'd probably benefit from lots of cheap and available internet for their logistics network, but its probably not expensive enough to justify alone, but maybe by leveraging AWS sales they can prop up cash flow enough to cover costs.

Not that they're doing this, of course, just that i don't think it should be ruled out.

Re: AWS Private 5G

#240

Post by fault1 »

javajosh wrote: post #176
jcrawfordor wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 5G architecture (and LTE for the most part, but 5G was designed ground-up this way) makes very heavy use of remote resources. An actual 5G base station (and most new LTE base stations) is somewhat like an SDR with very little actual protocol logic locally, it connects to a remote controller that handles all of the "business logic." It's an important change because for various reasons, some good and some not so go…

Thanks for the clarifications! I still have questions - there is no "business logic" in my wifi router, so why would there be such a thing in a 5G base station? What is the analog to a wifi router calling out to a "remote controller" to handle "business logic"? A base station needs "support services" to function - what are those? Presumably the complexity of 5G vs Wifi comes from it's cell nature, and the nodes need…

it's sort of like asking whether for self driving cars whether it is prudent to have cars that strictly know to act based on what they sense (in a reactive way), or if it is better to collect maps of sensed environments and figure out how to proactively figure out the best optimal approaches in given situations conditioned against various environments and push out updates.

the answer is that _both_ are prudent. There is enough cooperation and coordination challenges that both offline and online approaches are important.

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