The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous phrase (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous phrase (2016)

#351

Post by kube-system » Mon, Nov 29, 2021, 11:19 PM UTC

idiotsecant wrote: post #331

nawgz wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, the touchscreen and gauges auto-dimming: literally every time it auto-dims or auto-undims, I have to tweak the dimming level I have never noticed this, fingers crossed you didn't Baader-Meinhof me. The feature to aim the lights where you steer and auto-dim high beams when traffic is approaching and re-activate them works quite nicely for me as well, so I would consider the headlights to be a great stre…

>It is crazy to get into my partner's mid-2010s sedan and laugh at how bad the lights are at nighttime compared to the perfectly aimed and calibrated Subaru lights On the other hand, that mid 2010s sedan's headlight system will age gracefully - there are no aiming servos to fail or autodim relay output to stop working or such thing. It's just lights with a switch to turn them on or off. Increased complexity also impl…

And whatever those failure modes are, they better be good, because in 20 years those vehicles will be on the road in some state without regular inspections, driven by someone without the money to pay for OEM electrical repairs.

Re: The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous phrase (2016)

#352

Post by tuckerpo » Mon, Nov 29, 2021, 11:20 PM UTC

sdfjkl wrote: post #85

Different cultures have different unwritten behaviours on roads. In the mountains of Italy, drivers give a short honk before entering a turn on a serpentine road, which usually can't be seen around. If there is no responding honk, they will take the full width of the road (making the very tight turn easier and faster). Tourist drivers have to pick up on this :) In much of Europe oncoming cars flash their lights to wa…

When I visited Iceland, it seemed commonplace to flash your highbeams at the person in front of you if you intend to pass. It becomes the person in front's burden to signal a clear, safe pass. Kind of strange, and I can't imagine this system ever working in the USA. People can't even handle motorcycles lane splitting out of a "they're cutting in line" mentality.

Re: The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous phrase (2016)

#353

Post by nawgz » Mon, Nov 29, 2021, 11:49 PM UTC

idiotsecant wrote: post #331

nawgz wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, the touchscreen and gauges auto-dimming: literally every time it auto-dims or auto-undims, I have to tweak the dimming level I have never noticed this, fingers crossed you didn't Baader-Meinhof me. The feature to aim the lights where you steer and auto-dim high beams when traffic is approaching and re-activate them works quite nicely for me as well, so I would consider the headlights to be a great stre…

>It is crazy to get into my partner's mid-2010s sedan and laugh at how bad the lights are at nighttime compared to the perfectly aimed and calibrated Subaru lights On the other hand, that mid 2010s sedan's headlight system will age gracefully - there are no aiming servos to fail or autodim relay output to stop working or such thing. It's just lights with a switch to turn them on or off. Increased complexity also impl…

I would find it hard to believe that the failure mode of these headlights wouldn't be "points straight and doesn't auto-dim ever", which reduces it to the previous implementation's graceful aging modes, but you are right a new possibility is introduced.

Re: The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous phrase (2016)

#354

Post by soledades » Mon, Nov 29, 2021, 11:53 PM UTC

jacobolus wrote: post #200

1_player wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's an acoustic indicator of your position, making it possible for those in front of you to plot your presence without taking their eyes off the road in front So you're saying Indian drivers have developed echo-location.

Echo-location is about using reflected sound to detect the position of silent barriers/objects in the vicinity. This is about detecting the position of sound sources, which is something nearly everyone does all the time.

That said, humans are capable of echolocation with practice and it is commonplace in some cultures.

Re: The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous phrase (2016)

#355

Post by paledot » Tue, Nov 30, 2021, 12:06 AM UTC

kriro wrote: post #188

hr0m wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can confirm all of it for Germany as well (except the Italian serpentine road synchronization hack). I flash lights for oncoming traffics because of danger or police checks. I flash warning lights (or raise right hand) for thank you. Others do as well (especially buses, when you let them out of the bus stop, since in Germany they don't have the right of passage leaving a bus stop) I learned that truck drivers (and…

I'm pretty sure I learned that if a bus has the blinker on when leaving the bus stop you are supposed to let them into traffic. A quick check seems to confirm it (§20/5 StVO).

Here in Montreal the buses leave the right signal on while stopped at a stop, then activate the left signal as soon as the doors close, even if they're in a bus lane that they don't intend to leave. To complicate matters further, they use the hazard lights while stopped at a timing point, so you can't tell just by looking at the left side if the bus is about to merge or if it's going to be stationary for the next 10 minutes.

Parts of this make sense, and I appreciate the consistency, but the execution leaves something to be desired.

Re: The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous phrase (2016)

#356

Post by tata71 » Tue, Nov 30, 2021, 12:16 AM UTC

kube-system wrote: post #279

oxfeed65261 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see the opposite problem more often (Bay Area): cars with always-on daytime running lights that don’t turn on their headlights (and the corresponding taillights) at night. I flash my lights at them but this rarely seems to help.

Cars have too many features. And I don't mean this in a, "I'm a luddite and wish cars were simple" type of way. I seriously think the number of controls on a vehicle (and burden of the owners manual) is so great that it is causing safety issues. My car has more controls for the lights alone than my first vehicle had for everything. Literally. "Automatic" features like headlights were supposed to make us safer, but I…

Apple Car's on the way, hang tight.

Re: The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous phrase (2016)

#357

Post by bscphil » Tue, Nov 30, 2021, 1:47 AM UTC

technothrasher wrote: post #71

rahoulb wrote: post #9

As someone who has grown up (and learnt to drive) in England - I had a moment of sudden realisation in India. For me, the horn is a warning sign - "get out of my way" or "watch out!" - only to be used in emergencies. In India, the horn means "I'm over here", to be used whenever you're near another vehicle. Which fits with the statements on the back of the lorries perfectly.

> For me, the horn is a warning sign Here in Massachusetts, it seems the horn has only three functions. The first, a quick "beep beep" signals that you recognize another driver or pedestrian and are saying hello. The second, a one to three second beep means that the traffic light has switched to green and car in front of you has not begun moving within 20ms. And the third, a five to sixty second "beeeeeeeeep" means t…

Here in southern California, we have those 3, but we also have a 4th one which is very important: the "fuck you for honking" honk.

If someone else has made a mistake or is on the verge of making one, and you honk at them to warn them or others of the mistake, they will immediately honk back at you, holding the horn for at least a second longer than you held yours. This is because, to the typical SoCal driver, they never deserve to be honked at, and how-fucking-dare-you do it to them.

Re: The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous phrase (2016)

#358

Post by hungryforcodes » Tue, Nov 30, 2021, 2:06 AM UTC

mindcrime wrote: post #328

Arnavion wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And I understand English is still widely taught there, as a legacy of British colonialism, and so many (most?) Indian people - especially in urban areas - do speak English to some extent. "English is still widely taught here" is an understatement. Upper- and middle-upper-class children usually go to "English medium" schools, where all classes are taught in English (except for the local language class, eg the Hindi c…

"English is still widely taught here" is an understatement. Upper- and middle-upper-class children usually go to "English medium" schools, where all classes are taught in English (except for the local language class, eg the Hindi class is taught in Hindi), and you're expected to speak only English when talking to other kids and teachers as long as you're on school grounds. Wow. I didn't realize that English was that…

I had no idea either! That's pretty interesting. Though I got huge downvotes for my question -- thanks everyone. We don't all know English is so wide spread in India.

Re: The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous phrase (2016)

#359

Post by nawgz » Tue, Nov 30, 2021, 3:11 AM UTC

kube-system wrote: post #314

nawgz wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you describe here is clearly insanity, although I am slightly unconvinced owner's manual page count is very relevant. I read nothing and intuitively understood my car's controls, this is what I also agree should be the clear state, and it seems to me in some sense it should be legislated to prevent what you describe. It is an interesting point though, should each vehicle manufacturer be obligated to put a light…

I don't think it is insanity. It's part of the complexity inherent to managing state with auto high beams. My Toyota worked differently but had other complexities. I just looked up a 2021 Legacy manual and it sounds like Subaru High Beam Assist works about the same way as my Toyota did. The annoying thing about that design is, if I want to turn my high beams on manually, and the car decides that a street light in the…

> The annoying thing about that design is, if I want to turn my high beams on manually, and the car decides that a street light in the distance is a vehicle, it will ignore my request to turn on my high beams when I push the stick forward. I then also have to set my primary headlights to manual mode in order to override the car. This requires turning the knob at the end of the stalk which is not backlit and therefore not legible while driving at night. This is one area where I like the Honda design better: I can always turn my high beams with one operation.

It's an Outback for what it's worth, but... High beams work directly by pushing the stick forwards. I haven't experienced it denying such a request, only correctly toggling off when traffic is both oncoming and within a reasonable distance, but if it did behave incorrectly in this way, I would simply pull the stick back and push it forwards to re-activate high beams. I don't think there is any complexity in managing state with this implementation, it seems inherently obvious to me it would be this way. I am very surprised with everything else you've written here because it seems quite extraneous.

Re: The origins of ‘horn ok please,’ India’s most ubiquitous phrase (2016)

#360

Post by kube-system » Tue, Nov 30, 2021, 3:27 AM UTC

nawgz wrote: post #359

kube-system wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is insanity. It's part of the complexity inherent to managing state with auto high beams. My Toyota worked differently but had other complexities. I just looked up a 2021 Legacy manual and it sounds like Subaru High Beam Assist works about the same way as my Toyota did. The annoying thing about that design is, if I want to turn my high beams on manually, and the car decides that a street light in the…

> The annoying thing about that design is, if I want to turn my high beams on manually, and the car decides that a street light in the distance is a vehicle, it will ignore my request to turn on my high beams when I push the stick forward. I then also have to set my primary headlights to manual mode in order to override the car. This requires turning the knob at the end of the stalk which is not backlit and therefore…

> if it did behave incorrectly in this way, I would simply pull the stick back and push it forwards to re-activate high beams

In the Toyota that I had, if it thought there was an oncoming car, asking it to do the same thing again wouldn't result in a different outcome. Maybe Subaru's system is tuned better, or maybe my driving conditions are an edge case.

Either way, this was just an anecdotal tangent to support my above point that vehicle controls are more complex than they used to be. What was once one single boolean value is now a logic tree containing four boolean values ([auto headlight system engaged][vehicle detected ahead][vehicle speed within operational parameters][highbeams commanded by driver]).