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The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker: Xu Lizhi (2014)

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Re: The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker: Xu Lizhi (2014)

#21

Post by onethought »

Syonyk wrote: post #16
bmitc wrote: post #6

We're all a part of this. I've been asking myself questions, at an increasing rate lately, like "where does all this material come from?", "who makes all this stuff?", "what's the effect of making this?', etc., and any hint of an answer leads to nowhere good quite quickly. That is especially true when you consider the human and other animal elements. Just looking into the trash makes you realize the insane amount of…

If you'd like another depressing read, Derrick Jensen's "Bright Green Lies" is a good one. It does the very uncomfortable math on "Ok, so, you want to power civilization with wind/solar/nuclear/etc? What does that look like in mountain tops removed, valleys filled with tailings, habitats blown to pieces, etc?" The answers aren't good. A number of the environmental groups have subtly shifted over the past decade or tw…

Aren’t solar panels made from sand/silicone? Wouldn’t a solar run world look like a place where our sand deserts are instead covered in panels. You don’t even need that many (in space) to power the whole planet.

Not sure about lithium, but I suspect it’s not terrible as we don’t need that much.

Re: The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker: Xu Lizhi (2014)

#22

Post by doreal »

cm2012 wrote: post #19

The world spins in pain and has for a billion years. A billion Chinese people have been brought out of dire poverty by the manufacturing jobs that the export business has created. ( https://ourworldindata.org/app/uploads/2017/02/poverty-decli... ). Life for half the world's people sucks - but companies like Apple make it better, not worse. I say this as someone who doesn't use any Apple products and doesn't particula…

This is incredibly oblivious to the fact that we, the West, as consumers are enabling these awful working conditions. Do we need to buy an iPhone every year? Does Apple really need to release a new iPhone every year? Your comment basically says: they're poor but they're not too poor. Is there a line where poverty becomes tolerable? In a world like ours, where we are so productive, where we can mass produces practically anything, poverty should not exist.

Re: The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker: Xu Lizhi (2014)

#23

Post by bmitc »

Syonyk wrote: post #16
bmitc wrote: post #6

We're all a part of this. I've been asking myself questions, at an increasing rate lately, like "where does all this material come from?", "who makes all this stuff?", "what's the effect of making this?', etc., and any hint of an answer leads to nowhere good quite quickly. That is especially true when you consider the human and other animal elements. Just looking into the trash makes you realize the insane amount of…

If you'd like another depressing read, Derrick Jensen's "Bright Green Lies" is a good one. It does the very uncomfortable math on "Ok, so, you want to power civilization with wind/solar/nuclear/etc? What does that look like in mountain tops removed, valleys filled with tailings, habitats blown to pieces, etc?" The answers aren't good. A number of the environmental groups have subtly shifted over the past decade or tw…

I agree on your last point. It's very sad. An example I've come up with is fusion. The many scientists and engineers working on fusion, and the fans on the sidelines, are a bit too wide-eyed that it will "save" humanity. While it will obviously be much cleaner than existing energy production plants, I predict its cleanness will be outstripped by its enabling of even greater consumption.

I very much hold little hope for civilization at the rate we're going. Like you say, we've gone from trying to be in a sustainable balance to just trying to keep up. Technology is just allowing us to destroy everything about the planet and even our own societies.

And thank you for the reference. Although, I'm not sure I can take reading and watching more depressing material. It feels like learning how to scream into the wind.

Re: The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker: Xu Lizhi (2014)

#24

Post by cm2012 »

doreal wrote: post #22
cm2012 wrote: post #19

The world spins in pain and has for a billion years. A billion Chinese people have been brought out of dire poverty by the manufacturing jobs that the export business has created. ( https://ourworldindata.org/app/uploads/2017/02/poverty-decli... ). Life for half the world's people sucks - but companies like Apple make it better, not worse. I say this as someone who doesn't use any Apple products and doesn't particula…

This is incredibly oblivious to the fact that we, the West, as consumers are enabling these awful working conditions. Do we need to buy an iPhone every year? Does Apple really need to release a new iPhone every year? Your comment basically says: they're poor but they're not too poor. Is there a line where poverty becomes tolerable? In a world like ours, where we are so productive, where we can mass produces practical…

The thing is, if the West didn't buy, and China had no export market, life would get way worse for the average Chinese person. Rural farming is horrible compared to factory work, which is why Chinese people moved from rural farms to factory cities by the hundreds of millions over the last decades.

Re: The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker: Xu Lizhi (2014)

#26

Post by netizen-936824 »

cm2012 wrote: post #24
doreal wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is incredibly oblivious to the fact that we, the West, as consumers are enabling these awful working conditions. Do we need to buy an iPhone every year? Does Apple really need to release a new iPhone every year? Your comment basically says: they're poor but they're not too poor. Is there a line where poverty becomes tolerable? In a world like ours, where we are so productive, where we can mass produces practical…

The thing is, if the West didn't buy, and China had no export market, life would get way worse for the average Chinese person. Rural farming is horrible compared to factory work, which is why Chinese people moved from rural farms to factory cities by the hundreds of millions over the last decades.

Can you cite some sources about rural or subsistence farming compared to factory work?

Re: The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker: Xu Lizhi (2014)

#27

Post by Syonyk »

FullyFunctional wrote: post #10

I feel like my shiny new iPhone is made of tears. This is awful.

Not just tears. Slave labor, child labor (cough DRC/Cobalt cough), and some good old ethnic cleansing thrown in for good measure.

It's increasingly hard to justify any use of modern consumer electronics. The whole ecosystem is shiny on the surface, absolutely horrid underneath on any level you care to look.

Re: The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker: Xu Lizhi (2014)

#28

Post by cm2012 »

netizen-936824 wrote: post #26
cm2012 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, if the West didn't buy, and China had no export market, life would get way worse for the average Chinese person. Rural farming is horrible compared to factory work, which is why Chinese people moved from rural farms to factory cities by the hundreds of millions over the last decades.

Can you cite some sources about rural or subsistence farming compared to factory work?

Here's a good Google search https://www.google.com/search?q=great+migration+in+china+far...

Re: The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker: Xu Lizhi (2014)

#29

Post by comfysocks »

To the people who are arguing some variation of "Colonialism is actually a net GOOD for the colonized people!!"[1], I'd like to point out that this us NOT really an example of the "economic West" [2] colonizing China. Rather, it is the Chinese government allowing their workers to be exploited, with the complicity of the West. The Chinese government hopes to gain technological and economic parity or superiority to the economic West, all at the cost to the likes of Xu Lizhi. Cheap goods and labor are the bait offered to the West.

Western consumers are happy to lose their jobs over time in exchange for cheap goods. Western industrialists are happy to gain short term profits at the expense of long term decline. Western governments are happy to allow poor policy that allows this to happen because the industrialists have the best lobbyists.

Clearly there are more players in this game than just "Western consumers" and "Chinese factory workers". It's wrong to put the burden of responsibility just on the consumers. Policy played a big role in getting us into this mess. Policy will need to play a role in getting us out.

[1] No one actually said the word "colonialism", but it's a parallel argument heard countless times before.

[2] "Western" is not quite the right word because there are Eastern nations that are aligned with this economic bloc as well.

Re: The poetry and brief life of a Foxconn worker: Xu Lizhi (2014)

#30

Post by pseudalopex »

onethought wrote: post #20
FullyFunctional wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"enjoyed his time at Foxconn" is not remotely an accurate summary of the fine article - perhaps it's more like the opposite

Why did he leave, and then come back? If it was so horrible? His poems were published in the Foxconn newspaper… Do you think they would publish it if they thought it was criticism of their own organisation?

> Why did he leave, and then come back? If it was so horrible?

The article said he was running out of money.

> His poems were published in the Foxconn newspaper… Do you think they would publish it if they thought it was criticism of their own organisation?

What made you think he sent and they published all of them?

    A screw fell to the ground
    In this dark night of overtime
    Plunging vertically, lightly clinking
    It won’t attract anyone’s attention
    Just like last time
    On a night like this
    When someone plunged to the ground
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