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Update on Omicron

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Re: Update on Omicron

#751

Post by em3rgent0rdr »

em3rgent0rdr wrote: post #750
arbuge wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When COVID spreads in Africa and makes a new strain, it may as well be on your own doorstep. The world needs to step up and distribute vaccines to every corner of the globe, for FREE, or we’ll never get out of this. This isn't quite true. All epidemics come to an end eventually, vaccines or no vaccines. There were no vaccines to end the 1918 flu epidemic, but that one too died out just like all the ones before it i…

The 1918 flu epidemic arguably still persists to this day: > What’s even more remarkable about the 1918 flu, say infectious disease experts, is that it never really went away. After infecting an estimated 500 million people worldwide in 1918 and 1919 (a third of the global population), the H1N1 strain that caused the Spanish flu receded into the background and stuck around as the regular seasonal flu. > But every so…

> The impact of this pandemic was not limited to 1918–1919. All influenza A pandemics since that time, and indeed almost all cases of influenza A worldwide (excepting human infections from avian viruses such as H5N1 and H7N7), have been caused by descendants of the 1918 virus, including "drifted" H1N1 viruses and reassorted H2N2 and H3N2 viruses. The latter are composed of key genes from the 1918 virus, updated by subsequently incorporated avian influenza genes that code for novel surface proteins, making the 1918 virus indeed the "mother" of all pandemics.

[1] https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/12/1/05-0979_article

Re: Update on Omicron

#752

Post by em3rgent0rdr »

adzm wrote: post #528
disambiguation wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have they open sourced the vaccine recipe? I feel like that would help greatly to this end.

Yes, it is on GitHub even. https://github.com/NAalytics/Assemblies-of-putative-SARS-CoV...

Though this is just the RNA sequence, not a full recipe on how to create the vaccine.

It is like proving one source file but no Make file and no list of open source dependencies.

Re: Update on Omicron

#753

Post by supernovae »

DeusExMachina wrote: post #744
supernovae wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of Geerts papers are peer reviewed or based on scientific research/data. Stress doesn't cause mutations. Mutations happen because of genetics and whatever mutations increase their suvival end up being the mutations prevelent in society. What viruses need though are willing hosts who aren't vaccinated who carry the virus, allow it to thrive and mutate and more importantly - those who spread it. Blaming vaccinatio…

> None of Geerts papers are peer reviewed or based on scientific research/data. They have an extensive list of peer reviewed studies from plenty of other scientists: https://www.voiceforscienceandsolidarity.org/blog/supportive...

Go read all those papers, none of them support the claims that the vaccination accelerates or causes mutation.

It's unfortunate scientists love to stake a claim on trying to win a huge argument when they can't see the forrest from the trees and they exclude as much evidence as they cherry pick.

We've defeated things before with immunization. No one ran around saying get the whooping caugh because if you get a shot it will mutate...

Re: Update on Omicron

#754

Post by supernovae »

rajup wrote: post #729
himinlomax wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting exposed to one disease does not help you fight another, or at least not any more than getting a vaccine not targeted at the second.

The number of studies suggesting people exposed to other coronaviruses (common cold etc) having possibly more immunity to COVID disagree with you. You seem to be absolutely sure it makes no difference. Care to back that up?

Care to back up your claim with citations? Looking at the comment history its clear you don't understand immunology so i'm not sure you get a free pass on virology.

Re: Update on Omicron

#755

Post by easytiger »

orra wrote: post #145
easytiger wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Delta was simultaneously more infectious and more deadly than the original variant. That's not my understanding

It's well known it's more infectious, and widely suspected to be more deadly. See both https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/why-is-de... and https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/delta-var...

It wasn't more deadly. That's a total lie

Re: Update on Omicron

#756

Post by soared »

chrisjs95 wrote: post #301
soared wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you’re just ignoring the countless lives saved and lost?

Will we know if we actually saved net lives in 20 years? That's what I keep thinking. If we just let it run its course it could have been over in a few months and we would have been back to normal. History will tell.

> will we know > history will tell

I’m not following the logic here. As opposed to lockdowns we should.. let everyone die so those who live could go outside a couple months earlier?

Re: Update on Omicron

#757

Post by throwaway894345 »

supernovae wrote: post #712
throwaway894345 wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having had epidemics previously or having advanced genomic capability doesn’t imply a robust logistics network for the world’s first RNA vaccines which require particularly cold refrigeration.

Doesn't imply they don't already have the tech or couldn't implement the tech for cold distribution (which has been greatly improved from where it started even in the US)

> Doesn't imply they don't already have the tech or couldn't implement the tech for cold distribution

I think you've forgotten that you're the one arguing that Africa's experience with contagion means they're ahead on the logistical hurdles for distributing this particular vaccine. :) You have yet to explain how that experience is relevant for tackling these cold distribution challenges, especially in light of the countries' extreme levels of poverty and corruption.

I understand the impulse to cheer for third world countries, but we can be realistic about their challenges while also opposing poverty and prejudice.

Re: Update on Omicron

#758

Post by himinlomax »

rajup wrote: post #729
himinlomax wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting exposed to one disease does not help you fight another, or at least not any more than getting a vaccine not targeted at the second.

The number of studies suggesting people exposed to other coronaviruses (common cold etc) having possibly more immunity to COVID disagree with you. You seem to be absolutely sure it makes no difference. Care to back that up?

Care to back THAT up? I'm aware of that hypothesis, but it hasn't been conclusively demonstrated afaik.

Re: Update on Omicron

#759

Post by mythrwy »

aetherspawn wrote: post #154

Ok, my 2 cents. This happened because there isn’t enough vaccines in third world countries. They can’t afford them. The moral of the story? It doesn’t matter if you 100% vaccinate your western country. We’re all in this together. When COVID spreads in Africa and makes a new strain, it may as well be on your own doorstep. The world needs to step up and distribute vaccines to every corner of the globe, for FREE, or we’…

Disagree. Not only will what you suggest not happen, ever, because it's logistically impossible but the idea that it's the unvaccinated causing vaccine evading variants is ass backwards.

Re: Update on Omicron

#760

Post by mythrwy »

karlicoss wrote: post #438
cheaprentalyeti wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A non-sterilizing vaccine only increases the evolutionary pressure on the virus to evolve to be vaccine-resistant. Such a vaccine more or less becomes like taking a half-course of antibiotics.

Hmm, is that really so? As far as I understand, for bacteria a more significant factor is horizontal gene exchange (because their genome mutation rate is much lower, presumably because they are more complicated than viruses). Viruses can't do gene exchange, so the only factor for developing resistance is the total number of viral particles produced, so even if it's a weak vaccine or half dose of antiviral drug, it wo…

At a population level view he is exactly right.

A partial dose of antibiotics scenario is exactly what we have done with these vaccines.

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