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Long-run effects of religious persecution: evidence from the Spanish Inquisition

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Re: Long-run effects of religious persecution: evidence from the Spanish Inquisition

#61

Post by trasz »

szeptik wrote: post #42
trasz wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the very notion of forced conversion is understood as not only evil by Catholics Funny you say that, given how one of the cornerstones of Catholicism is forced conversion of children.

As I understand it, conversion requires renouncing your previous faith. If you are referring to the practice of baptizing newborn babies, I don't think it can considered a conversion (much less a forced one) at all.

Not really: “Religious conversion is the adoption of a set of beliefs identified with one particular religious denomination to the exclusion of others.” It would seem rather pointless to have a separate terms for “conversion” and “conversion from effectively atheism”.

And it’s definitely a forced conversion: the whole purpose is to explicitly ignore one’s will, and is used to “trap” children into religion, generally followed by indoctrination about alleged “obligations” and “duties”.

Re: Long-run effects of religious persecution: evidence from the Spanish Inquisition

#62

Post by codephined »

no one mentioning that civil criminals would blaspheme just to have their cases moved to and heard in the much more fair inquisition courts, eh? okay. 700 years of muslim conquest in Spain, led and facilitated by jewish communities literally opening the gates to cities like Toledo and encouraging the murder of christians. but hey let's keep up the Anglo protestant and secular myths

Re: Long-run effects of religious persecution: evidence from the Spanish Inquisition

#63

Post by ConceptJunkie »

jollybean wrote: post #15
square_usual wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoa, I've never heard of that one before. Any off the wall homepage with mid-2000's aesthetics that lays it out for me?

There are TikTokers with a lot of influence promulgating it from their basements. The vast number of commentators seem to be taking the insanity at face value. A lot of comments like 'Wow, that's an interesting perspective' of 'I've never heard that, they don't teach us everything in school'. While I'm not worried about that meme, it's just shocking to see how easy it is to delude people. Combined with the Pew pollin…

> Cable news is all Senior Citizens while Gen Z is off on Twitch and TikTok

Both of those are garbage sources. It's a lateral move, in my opinion.

Re: Long-run effects of religious persecution: evidence from the Spanish Inquisition

#64

Post by AnimalMuppet »

ciberado wrote: post #27
jganetsk wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. The persecution of religious minorities in Europe culminated in the Holocaust, which led to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Don't blame the minorities who have suffered and continue to suffer.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I have always thought this was an ethnic/cultural/social persecution, not mainly religious-based.

Both/and, I think. If you don't like "them", and they're religiously different too, then religion becomes one more avenue for you to attack them. On the other hand, if it starts with you not liking their religion, then you can wind up not liking their ethnicity too.

Re: Long-run effects of religious persecution: evidence from the Spanish Inquisition

#65

Post by AnimalMuppet »

ConceptJunkie wrote: post #63
jollybean wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are TikTokers with a lot of influence promulgating it from their basements. The vast number of commentators seem to be taking the insanity at face value. A lot of comments like 'Wow, that's an interesting perspective' of 'I've never heard that, they don't teach us everything in school'. While I'm not worried about that meme, it's just shocking to see how easy it is to delude people. Combined with the Pew pollin…

> Cable news is all Senior Citizens while Gen Z is off on Twitch and TikTok Both of those are garbage sources. It's a lateral move, in my opinion.

Yes, but TikTok is even more fragmented than cable news, with far more varieties of insane nonsense.

Re: Long-run effects of religious persecution: evidence from the Spanish Inquisition

#66

Post by tpoacher »

"Using data on the Spanish Inquisition, we show that in municipalities where the Spanish Inquisition persecuted more citizens, incomes are lower, trust is lower, and education is markedly lower than in other comparable towns and cities."

In other words, defund the Spanish Inquisition?

Re: Long-run effects of religious persecution: evidence from the Spanish Inquisition

#67

Post by AnimalMuppet »

happy_path wrote: post #60
jsmith99 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh yes, I'm not hating on Spain, but the parent comment seemed to deny the persecution Jews experienced and portrayed it as some sort of righteous anger on the part of good Catholics.

I don't think it was "rightous anger", but the hate against jews were commonplace in Medieval Ages. That also involves Spain of course. Until recently, most people were extremely racist/prejudiced against "the other" (hate against jews included). However, I'm afraid that the popularization of the Spanish Inquisition [1] is due to propaganda. It is called Black Legend in academic circles and the publication in England…

Control with an iron fist is better than extermination, but it's a pretty low bar...

Re: Long-run effects of religious persecution: evidence from the Spanish Inquisition

#68

Post by happy_path »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #67
happy_path wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it was "rightous anger", but the hate against jews were commonplace in Medieval Ages. That also involves Spain of course. Until recently, most people were extremely racist/prejudiced against "the other" (hate against jews included). However, I'm afraid that the popularization of the Spanish Inquisition [1] is due to propaganda. It is called Black Legend in academic circles and the publication in England…

Control with an iron fist is better than extermination, but it's a pretty low bar...

We are talking about XV-XIX centuries. Most countries had different levels of "iron fist" population control for a segment of their population. It could be control of women, poor people, people of different ethnicity, jews, etc.

What I want to highlight, is that the behavior of the Spanish Inquisition, while abhorrent to our XXI eyes, were not uncommon during those times. Note please that I'm not justifying anything, I'm making a point that Human History has been horrible during almost of its existence: discrimination, wars, slavery, segregation, etc. Human Rights are a "new thing".

Re: Long-run effects of religious persecution: evidence from the Spanish Inquisition

#69

Post by breakyerself »

Without conscious policy the inequality resulting from racial persecution is probably going to go the same way in the US.

In 2019 the median white household held $188,200 in wealth—7.8 times that of the typical Black household $24,100.

Re: Long-run effects of religious persecution: evidence from the Spanish Inquisition

#70

Post by jollybean »

ConceptJunkie wrote: post #63
jollybean wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are TikTokers with a lot of influence promulgating it from their basements. The vast number of commentators seem to be taking the insanity at face value. A lot of comments like 'Wow, that's an interesting perspective' of 'I've never heard that, they don't teach us everything in school'. While I'm not worried about that meme, it's just shocking to see how easy it is to delude people. Combined with the Pew pollin…

> Cable news is all Senior Citizens while Gen Z is off on Twitch and TikTok Both of those are garbage sources. It's a lateral move, in my opinion.

Cable news reports on the news of the day and generally doesn't lie, rather, they misrepresent.

TikTok, Reddit etc. is mostly just fantasy, opinion.

Older people are much better informed about current issues.

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