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Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

blog.jetbrains.com

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Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#131

Post by KronisLV »

pjmlp wrote: post #110
KronisLV wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that they don't understand, merely that a different viewpoint was expressed: > ...there is clearly a lack of understanding of what an IDE gives you. This is most definitely true for many people who have largely gotten used to dynamic languages and have only used text editors or have only experienced VS Code with plugins, because it's wonderfully easy to run and use, even if its feature…

I tend to agree with the sentiment, but when you have Red-Hat and Microsoft collaborating into bringing all possible IDE features that matters for Java BE development into VSCode, that really hurts into JetBrains pocket. They are turning VSCode into a first class experience when coding mainframe style across OpenShift, IBM Cloud and Azure.

That's a very fair point to make, but as a consumer, that's probably a good thing - having a healthy competition in the industry, it seems that even the likes of Eclipse are attempting to branch out somewhat: https://theia-ide.org/

The next decade in tooling will hopefully be promising!

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#132

Post by donatzsky »

eklavya wrote: post #6

With compose for desktop announced, I was wondering when a new interface would be unveiled. Looks like they are using the migration to the new stack to experiment with a lightweight alternative to vscode. I wonder if it also uses kotlin native and moves away from JVM, doesn’t seem likely since they say they are sharing code processing backend with IntelliJ.

It uses a client-server architecture, with with code-completion and other IDE features provided by a server separate from the editor client. I suppose that means you might need the JVM for the IDE back-end, but there's no reason why the editor can't be native.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29378010

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#133

Post by Tajnymag »

mastazi wrote: post #123
Tajnymag wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IDE language isn't tied to the language used in your codebase

Parent has a point, there are so many things that don't even make sense in other languages, for example in my native language we don't have a word that corresponds to "Refactor", any possible translation would be weird and hard to understand, that's why I've never used an IDE in a language other than English. It's got nothing to do with "the language used in your codebase", whatever you mean by that (programming lang…

Yes, I agree that certain things are complicated to be translated correctly

Yes, almost all programming languages use English keywords.

Yes, for international collaboration, English is a must.

However, many non-native English speakers who are complete programming beginners do tend to have trouble with the locale the editor is in. Imagine you want to change a certain setting but don't know the correct English word for it. Or all the warnings, errors and hints the editor throws at you. Everything is in a language you were not born with. Personally I know a handful of people who struggle with English itself, but that shouldn't be a requisite to use the editor alone.

As for my "tied to the language": parent comment didn't specify how the IDE affected their programming workflow, so I went with a general statement.

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#134

Post by nwatson »

ricardobeat wrote: post #94
atraac wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People moved from IntelliJ to VSC because it was faster, simpler and language-agnostic, instead JetBrains blamed users for not using advanced features like CPU profiling which most people don't use daily. They are jumping on simple-editor train now. Better late than never From my experience, most people who nowadays start programming, flock to vscode because it's free, used in most tutorials and then they simply do…

VSCode has debugging built in and can connect to various runtimes. Not that I ever use that - I prefer sticking with the language native tools, and I rarely require anything beyond inspecting runtime values and simple benchmarking. Maybe this comes from the perspective of Java, where you need an IDE to do proper debugging, building/starting an application requires a gazillion command line arguments, and you have laye…

Refactoring, "show me where this class, function, variable is used", "show me a class hierarchy", "analyze my code and tell me where I'm not using best practices and suggest the best fixes and apply my selected one", are places where a full-fledged IDE shines. An editor won't do those, or most of those. A 15-minute task turns into a 20-second blip.

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#135

Post by ljm »

spoils19 wrote: post #61
creshal wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. > For years folks have been asking us, “JetBrains, when will you create a lightweight editor?” I sure never did. If anything, I want their IDEs to be more involved and sophisticated. Otherwise I'm likely going to cancel our company subscriptions next year, VSCode is starting to overtake e.g. PyCharm in terms of developer comfort. So I really hope this is just a tech demonstrator to renew the architecture of the…

I've worked in 4 different software shops over the last 15 years. My general observation is the developers who rely on heavily automated/magic tooling are significantly outclassed by those who use the terminal + a basic text editor. Terminal + Vim or Emacs/VSCode (depending on configuration) is not only all you need, it also produces developers who understand the systems they work with. I know a lot of people will di…

I do most of my stuff inside Emacs, but I wouldn't say that makes me a superior engineer to someone who uses a suite of JetBrains IDEs. In fact, for every benefit I gain from working in emacs and a terminal, there are plenty of trade-offs in terms of the amount of convenience I lose.

I could recreate much of this with my emacs config, but that's an investment of my own time that isn't being spent on the actual project I want to work on. So one day I'll get around to it when I feel like it's worth moving that work into my emacs environment. But until then, I'm quite happy to fire up GoLand or IntelliJ and get a complete end-to-end integration between the language and the editor, without needing to configure anything.

I'm not sure the developer who uses an IDE is worse off than someone who can wrangle a terminal and minimal editor. If anything, it's just one choice of cognitive burden over another. Nothing better or worse.

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#136

Post by donatzsky »

johnchristopher wrote: post #28
dmitriid wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> DOA without vim bindings though. The number of users pining for Vim and Vim bindings is greatly exaggerated.

I wish it wasn't though. I am so addicted to vim :/. Not even a hard core vim script maker or anything though and every 9 months I try to either add IDE features to vim (and give up) or add vim features to an IDE (and give up). Vim, not even once.

Not a vim user myself, but it seems like Neovim is getting close to what you want. Of course, there's always Emacs with Evil mode.

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#137

Post by LeonM »

wokwokwok wrote: post #10

There’s a real opportunity here for JB. If they’re prepared to give this away for free, and make money off of upselling folk on hosted remote dev envs (or licensing the server side to cloud providers) then this could actually compete with vscode. They basically don’t have any other product that is competitive with vscode. …but, I’m skeptical they’re willing to make the jump to freemium based on their other SAS produc…

I've used Jetbrains products for a long time, both as a student, and later professionally.

Jetbrains products are free for students, and paid for professional use. In my opinion, the pricing of the product is spot on. My company pays about ~200 euro per seat per year, which is a good price for the quality tooling you get.

In my experience, VSCode is not competitive with Jetbrains products. Their products come with support and good documentation. The proposition is clear and you get exactly what you pay for.

So please JetBrains, do not jump on the freemium bandwagon. Just have us pay for a professional tool without constantly being pushed to some SaaS product offering.

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#139

Post by asattarmd »

mikkelam wrote: post #104
torginus wrote: post #5

I really hope it's not Electron-based.

The UI is probably written with compose https://github.com/JetBrains/compose-jb

I believe so as well. Compose is very similar to Electron. Jetbrains Toolbox (which uses compose) uses 500mb memory which is on par with what Electron would use for such a simple app.

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#140

Post by vbezhenar »

nottorp wrote: post #113
comprev wrote: post #71

Although I only speak English I greatly appreciate the fact their blog is available in so many other languages. Are their IDEs interfaces available in multiple languages too?

Sheesh. Please no. Note that i do speak several languages and my native language isnt English. Still, please dont complicate my programming with translations.

I don't understand this approach. Obviously you'll have a choice. And those who struggle with English would love to have a choice as well.
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