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Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

blog.jetbrains.com

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Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#101

Post by albertzeyer »

quanticle wrote: post #34
wokwokwok wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I mean to be fair the coding services for most languages in vscode other than js (ie java, c, rust, python, go, php, c#, ruby specifically) suck totally compared to the JB tooling. Let’s not play “pretend vscode is amazing” here today. The plug-ins for many languages are of massively varying quality and some of them really suck . The only thing they having going for them is being free. So… It’s pretty questiona…

>Well, I mean to be fair the coding services for most languages in vscode other than js (ie java, c, rust, python, go, php, c#, ruby specifically) suck totally compared to the JB tooling. I have to disagree. JetBrains' tooling is superior for Java and Kotlin. For C#, Visual Studio is pretty good these days, even without Resharper. For everything else VSCode is unquestionably better. I can just point VSCode at a direc…

The last time I compared the Python support in VSCode to PyCharm, the difference was still very huge when it came to more complex situations, where PyCharm usually handled the situation much better.

And also the speed. PyCharm was by far much faster (I mean specifically the code parsing, auto completion, etc).

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#102

Post by yutijke »

I wonder if this a reaction to Microsoft gaining developer mindshare through VSCode, Github codespaces and other integrations around VSCode?

It could also have been a response to requests for better remote development support due to the WFH situation in the last ~1.5 years.

Don't know if there is a way for use to know which one though.

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#103

Post by KronisLV »

agilob wrote: post #74
tdrdt wrote: post #64

To me it sounds like this is used to test a rewrite of all their IDEs because it is written from scratch. I can imagine if this becomes a succes they will update all their IDEs or use Fleet as the new platform.

Over year ago JetBrains released a post showing they don't understand why VSCode eats their market: > Still, we don’t deny the information could be a bit skewed – even with the weighting we give to our survey results – given that this is from the JetBrains State of Developer Ecosystem survey, and one of JetBrains main products is IntelliJ IDEA. However, that is not to say that this is not totally unreasonable, as if…

I wouldn't go as far as to say that they don't understand, merely that a different viewpoint was expressed:

> ...there is clearly a lack of understanding of what an IDE gives you.

This is most definitely true for many people who have largely gotten used to dynamic languages and have only used text editors or have only experienced VS Code with plugins, because it's wonderfully easy to run and use, even if its feature set is lesser than that of many of JetBrains' products.

Where it all gets a bit muddier is finding the distinction between "not knowing" and "not caring/needing".

For many use cases out there, VS Code with plugins will be more than enough!

But for working on an enterprise Java/.NET/... codebase and applying refactoring across dozens if not hundreds of files, something a bit more might be necessary. When working with the Eldritch abomination that the Spring framework and its many integrations are, you better have tooling that provides you with smart hints, fixes and autocomplete suggestions, as well as context sensitive parsing of your dozens of XML/YAML configuration files and their values.

When you're trying to trace down a race condition across hundreds of proxied Java classes, where the framework rewrites and calls your code with reflection so it's really hard to actually debug anything outside of your code, you better have a good debugger and the possibility to use conditional breakpoints, otherwise if you can only catch any type of exception, you'll be sitting there for half an hour just to get to the specific state that you're looking for.

Edit: i'd say that all of the autocompletes and suggestions (e.g. "you can use a lambda here", or "you don't need all of this cruft for implementing a functional interface") can actually be beneficial to getting to know a language or a framework better.

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#105

Post by dmitriid »

atraac wrote: post #84
agilob wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over year ago JetBrains released a post showing they don't understand why VSCode eats their market: > Still, we don’t deny the information could be a bit skewed – even with the weighting we give to our survey results – given that this is from the JetBrains State of Developer Ecosystem survey, and one of JetBrains main products is IntelliJ IDEA. However, that is not to say that this is not totally unreasonable, as if…

> People moved from IntelliJ to VSC because it was faster, simpler and language-agnostic, instead JetBrains blamed users for not using advanced features like CPU profiling which most people don't use daily. They are jumping on simple-editor train now. Better late than never From my experience, most people who nowadays start programming, flock to vscode because it's free, used in most tutorials and then they simply do…

> do not understand why a certain paid IDE could be better, because they never tried it

Same goes for most vim/emacs vs. ide discussions :)

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#107

Post by RyEgswuCsn »

atraac wrote: post #84
agilob wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over year ago JetBrains released a post showing they don't understand why VSCode eats their market: > Still, we don’t deny the information could be a bit skewed – even with the weighting we give to our survey results – given that this is from the JetBrains State of Developer Ecosystem survey, and one of JetBrains main products is IntelliJ IDEA. However, that is not to say that this is not totally unreasonable, as if…

> People moved from IntelliJ to VSC because it was faster, simpler and language-agnostic, instead JetBrains blamed users for not using advanced features like CPU profiling which most people don't use daily. They are jumping on simple-editor train now. Better late than never From my experience, most people who nowadays start programming, flock to vscode because it's free, used in most tutorials and then they simply do…

I tend to agree.

It's a bit like the dynamic vs. static typing situation. New comers often prefer languages like Python at first for their simplicity, only to "rediscover" that static typing is so much more manageable later in their career.

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#110

Post by pjmlp »

KronisLV wrote: post #103
agilob wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over year ago JetBrains released a post showing they don't understand why VSCode eats their market: > Still, we don’t deny the information could be a bit skewed – even with the weighting we give to our survey results – given that this is from the JetBrains State of Developer Ecosystem survey, and one of JetBrains main products is IntelliJ IDEA. However, that is not to say that this is not totally unreasonable, as if…

I wouldn't go as far as to say that they don't understand, merely that a different viewpoint was expressed: > ...there is clearly a lack of understanding of what an IDE gives you. This is most definitely true for many people who have largely gotten used to dynamic languages and have only used text editors or have only experienced VS Code with plugins, because it's wonderfully easy to run and use, even if its feature…

I tend to agree with the sentiment, but when you have Red-Hat and Microsoft collaborating into bringing all possible IDE features that matters for Java BE development into VSCode, that really hurts into JetBrains pocket.

They are turning VSCode into a first class experience when coding mainframe style across OpenShift, IBM Cloud and Azure.

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