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Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

blog.jetbrains.com

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Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#81

Post by fxtentacle »

5e92cb50239222b wrote: post #78
samjmck wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The program isn't even publicly available yet. How can you conclude that it provides little over VS Code? And why does it matter that it's not open source?

> And why does it matter that it's not open source? I honestly find this question really weird. Do we really have to explain such basic things nowadays? It may not be important to you, it is extremely important to me, and (apparently) xyproto.

And that's why you're not using Windows, Mac, Android, or iOS, but only Linux, correct?

Mostly people want open source but they'll happily abandon it for convenience. That's how Gmail won over Dovecot.

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#82

Post by Osiris »

spoils19 wrote: post #61
creshal wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. > For years folks have been asking us, “JetBrains, when will you create a lightweight editor?” I sure never did. If anything, I want their IDEs to be more involved and sophisticated. Otherwise I'm likely going to cancel our company subscriptions next year, VSCode is starting to overtake e.g. PyCharm in terms of developer comfort. So I really hope this is just a tech demonstrator to renew the architecture of the…

I've worked in 4 different software shops over the last 15 years. My general observation is the developers who rely on heavily automated/magic tooling are significantly outclassed by those who use the terminal + a basic text editor. Terminal + Vim or Emacs/VSCode (depending on configuration) is not only all you need, it also produces developers who understand the systems they work with. I know a lot of people will di…

This is not my experience at all. If anything, junior or mid developers that use IDEs rarely even use all the "advanced" features like inline debugging and source control features. The more senior developers maximize the value they get from tooling.

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#83

Post by codemusings »

davidkunz wrote: post #35
mshroyer wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VS Code also starts in "seconds" on my machine, so if that's what they're targeting it's probably a success.

Vim/Neovim is practically instant, everything else it too slow in my book.

Yeah turns out the language server and other IDE features are resource intensive. Who knew. TextEdit also starts in under a second.

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#84

Post by atraac »

agilob wrote: post #74
tdrdt wrote: post #64

To me it sounds like this is used to test a rewrite of all their IDEs because it is written from scratch. I can imagine if this becomes a succes they will update all their IDEs or use Fleet as the new platform.

Over year ago JetBrains released a post showing they don't understand why VSCode eats their market: > Still, we don’t deny the information could be a bit skewed – even with the weighting we give to our survey results – given that this is from the JetBrains State of Developer Ecosystem survey, and one of JetBrains main products is IntelliJ IDEA. However, that is not to say that this is not totally unreasonable, as if…

> People moved from IntelliJ to VSC because it was faster, simpler and language-agnostic, instead JetBrains blamed users for not using advanced features like CPU profiling which most people don't use daily. They are jumping on simple-editor train now. Better late than never

From my experience, most people who nowadays start programming, flock to vscode because it's free, used in most tutorials and then they simply do not understand why a certain paid IDE could be better, because they never tried it. Which is right with their statement. People keep parroting about greatness of vscode because it gets them through the day of making hello world apps and never have to actually debug more complex code or work with bigger codebases. Does it work in big projects for some(usually experienced) poeple? Sure. Is it the best way of working? Usually no(in my opinion at least).

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#85

Post by Osiris »

oblio wrote: post #39
davidkunz wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vim/Neovim is practically instant, everything else it too slow in my book.

Considering the tools developers use in general (Visual Studio, VS Code, Eclipse, IntelliJ, Netbeans, various DB browsers, etc.), application start up time doesn't seem to be an important concern for the majority.

My IDE stays open (I keep all the common projects I work on open and just switch between them as needed). I rarely reboot. Startup time is completely irrelevant.

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#86

Post by idontwantthis »

codemusings wrote: post #83
davidkunz wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vim/Neovim is practically instant, everything else it too slow in my book.

Yeah turns out the language server and other IDE features are resource intensive. Who knew. TextEdit also starts in under a second.

I use Vim with a language server and 10 other plugins that give me almost everything JetBrains offers. Only thing JetBrains is so much better at is fixing merge conflicts. Vim still starts instantly, and I never have to wait for it to index anything.

JetBrains is amazing, but I hate waiting for it. It stops me from starting work. Maybe that's just my problem.

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#87

Post by iainmerrick »

oblio wrote: post #39
davidkunz wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vim/Neovim is practically instant, everything else it too slow in my book.

Considering the tools developers use in general (Visual Studio, VS Code, Eclipse, IntelliJ, Netbeans, various DB browsers, etc.), application start up time doesn't seem to be an important concern for the majority.

You typically leave an IDE open most of the time, and maybe start it up in the morning at most a few times a week.

For that, a cold launch time of a couple of seconds (VS Code) is fine, tens of seconds (Eclipse, XCode) is annoying.

Opening new files definitely needs to be instantaneous.

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#88

Post by talhof8 »

Oddly similar to vscode. Always loved Jetbrains' IDEs better.

Hopefully they won't be stupid enough to deprecate them. I feel a much better effort would be to heavily work on optimizing performance for their existing suite of IDEs (or perhaps re-write them in Rust or something more suitable than Java/Kotlin).

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#89

Post by mikkelam »

As a long-term pycharm user that recently migrated to VSCode im quite happy to see jetbrains building this. My main gripe with their stack is that I work across many languages and workflows and I like to use the exact same keymaps configurations and so on and pycharm just didn't give you that.

I really love the idea of the virtualized file system allowing you to develop anywhere. I hope this works well. Comparably, VSCode's remote containers really do a poor job of allowing one to develop over ssh connections, which I do constantly.

Re: Fleet, a Lightweight IDE from JetBrains

#90

Post by ehnto »

I can see this being huge in a team with tight tool parity. I probably wouldn't use it as a freelancer, but remembering back to when I worked at an agency where we all had the same software and a pool of environments for all the different clients, this would have been the perfect tool.

I know we all want to be special snowflakes, but my advice for a fast moving coherent team tooling includes having everyone on the same environment and using the same tools, so that you can share knowledge and master your tools as an individual and a team. Troubleshooting becomes much more reasonable, and we can all share the useful shortcuts we slowly build up over time.

That's one of the downsides of tech moving so fast, no one masters anything, as a generalized industry we're eternally noobs.

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