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Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

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Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#221
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cold air can hold a lot less water vapor than warm air. If you open the window when it's cold outside, then the air will become very dry as it heats up. So even if you have 80% humidity outside on a cold winters day, once that air gets inside and heats up to room temperature it's going to be like 20% humidity.

That happens even if you don't open your windows, since buildings aren't perfectly sealed.

It also depends greatly on how well your structure is insulated and where (or whether) vapour barriers exist.

Vapour condenses against cold surfaces. This is why in winter poorly-glazed (e.g., single-glazed) windows "steam" up (really: condense), or frost over. Similarly water will condense against exterior walls, and may lead to degraded sheetrock (newer construction) or plaster (in older buildings), or rot. Where walls are insulated, a vapour barrier _before_ the insulation can lead to condensation inside the wall, again, against the exterior (cold) surface. The result is that even if the interior is humidified, moisture is "sucked out" by the exterior cold. (More accurately: vapour condenses against cold surfaces.)

In summer, the problem is reversed, with warm humid exterior air condensing on surfaces cooled by interior air conditioning --- the outside of windows, or again, inside walls. Interiors can see higher relative humidity than the outside, and dehumidifiers may be needed.

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#222

A metaphor I was thinking of earlier. If a guy is going to piss on you, you're going to be happy if he has to keep a pair of speedos on as he attempts it. You could also just move further away from him. But if you're both swimming in the same pool while he pisses in it, those speedos will make little difference anymore. Neither will your distance from him help very much. What will help much more is the amount of wate…

You'd have to use a very special Speedo in this example, though. One that filters microparticles out of the urine, keeping large parts the grossness inside.

Also, don't touch the outside!

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#223

They already solved this in NYC and Chicago with extra hot radiators by windows. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-05/the-curio... The “spent breath” of the occupants of poorly ventilated homes contributed to 40% of the deaths in the country, he claimed, and often said “man’s own breath is his greatest enemy.” He would spend decades promoting the cause, designing ventilation schemes for buildings, penni…

Reminds me of The Lost Art of Steam Heating by Dan Holohan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQB0KK2rxcw

Excellent video and information, as well as a rabbit hole to dive into (Holohan's work).

Thanks!

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#224
In Japan, ventilation has always been seen as one of the main ways to keep cases low. Restaurants and bars keep their doors and windows open, busses and trains have windows open, campaigns encourage everyone to open any windows in offices and homes for ten minutes every hour... even in winter.

Seems like the science supports thi snow but for many years foreigners in Japan have traditionally and famously complained about "how stupid it is to have the windows open in winter"... the table shave turned.

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Open windows when it's above 50F / 10C (to give a healthy safety margin to the water pipes) and tell people to wear sweaters. Yeah, please don't. There's a comfortable level somewhere above that, but at 10C I wouldn't be able to function in context of work / school. With worse circulation you just end up with your hands / feet feeling like they're constantly freezing. Some teachers thought that's a good idea, but I…

Dress appropriately for the season and you'll be just fine. If you wear warm clothes that cover your arms, your hands will be warmer too. Poor bloodflow to your hands is a consequence of your core loosing too much heat; your body compensates for that by reducing bloodflow to the extremities. Warm clothing makes gloves utterly unnecessary at 10C.

Did you really try to explain dressing appropriately to someone dealing with this issue for years? Did you expect me to go "sure, I wear winter thermals sub 10C, but this random person may have a point about dressing warmer?"

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#226
post #72

> Pumping in adequate amounts of fresh outside air, however engineered, will challenge running costs as well as carbon status. This is wrong. Mechanical Heat Recovery Ventilation (MVHR) is a well established technology which can recycle 96% of the heat from the waste air in a house. It costs about the same to fit as a central heating system. Passive houses have very high Air Changes per Hour (ACH) compared to convent…

I think it’s not wrong when considered in the context of already existing large buildings (office complexes, public transit stations, department stores, restaurants, hotels, etc) as opposed to newly built individual houses (where, arguably, increased ventilation may not have that much effect on infection spread)

Or are you saying it’s still cost-efficient to retrofit in a high-rise from the day 1980s?

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Open windows when it's above 50F / 10C (to give a healthy safety margin to the water pipes) and tell people to wear sweaters. Yeah, please don't. There's a comfortable level somewhere above that, but at 10C I wouldn't be able to function in context of work / school. With worse circulation you just end up with your hands / feet feeling like they're constantly freezing. Some teachers thought that's a good idea, but I…

Dress appropriately for the season and you'll be just fine. If you wear warm clothes that cover your arms, your hands will be warmer too. Poor bloodflow to your hands is a consequence of your core loosing too much heat; your body compensates for that by reducing bloodflow to the extremities. Warm clothing makes gloves utterly unnecessary at 10C.

I’d say something similar but no, I think there are very few individuals who will not suffer in 10C, whatever the clothing.

Being physically active makes a huge difference too. With the same clothes I can be perfectly comfortable on a promenade at the same temperature that makes my fingers hurt typing at my desk.

My house is currently ~10C if I don’t activate heating. That’s miserable. My fingers get stiff and hurt a bit when at the keyboard. Even with 3 warm layers legs/4 warm layers upper. And I’m born and raised just a few miles from the Arctic circle.

People around me see me as “that guy who can handle any cold” and my breaking point for comfortable sedentary is around 15C.

Oh, and humidity does make a huge difference for how could absolute temperatures are experienced.

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#228
Yeah, no.

Having literally every indoor space be freezing cold is not reasonable.

In the UK this happened earlier in the year (no-one cares any more) and generally everyone would huddle in the most sheltered part of a venue to make up for it.

And no, we're not installing magic new tech in every building.

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#229

Yeah, no. Having literally every indoor space be freezing cold is not reasonable. In the UK this happened earlier in the year (no-one cares any more) and generally everyone would huddle in the most sheltered part of a venue to make up for it. And no, we're not installing magic new tech in every building.

Having literally every indoor space be freezing cold is not reasonable.

You are absolutely correct. I have heat and insulation to keep the cold out. And it works: It is currently -9C/16F and though I feel a small draft from the closed window, I'm also not wearing a coat indoors. I'd be huddling under a blanket otherwise.

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#230
post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like the surgeons who have been dropping like flies for the past 100 years because they wear masks all day at work?

They get new masks every few hours. Or they did before the pandemic anyway.

That depends on how long they are in surgery, I'd think. And isn't the reason for switching masks not because of adverse affects to the surgeon, but to protect the patient? We have similar things with rubber gloves: You don't need to change gloves so often if you are, say, cleaning.
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