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Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

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Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#201

Post by Eelongate »

viraptor wrote: post #154
Eelongate wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In much of the world for much of the year, it doesn't get below freezing for at least part of the day. The solution to the heating problem is simple then: simply don't. Open windows when it's above 50F / 10C (to give a healthy safety margin to the water pipes) and tell people to wear sweaters. Do this where it's possible and you'll offset the energy expenditure of heating in places were it actually earnestly gets col…

> Open windows when it's above 50F / 10C (to give a healthy safety margin to the water pipes) and tell people to wear sweaters. Yeah, please don't. There's a comfortable level somewhere above that, but at 10C I wouldn't be able to function in context of work / school. With worse circulation you just end up with your hands / feet feeling like they're constantly freezing. Some teachers thought that's a good idea, but I…

Dress appropriately for the season and you'll be just fine. If you wear warm clothes that cover your arms, your hands will be warmer too. Poor bloodflow to your hands is a consequence of your core loosing too much heat; your body compensates for that by reducing bloodflow to the extremities. Warm clothing makes gloves utterly unnecessary at 10C.

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#202

Post by Eelongate »

andi999 wrote: post #195
Eelongate wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In much of the world for much of the year, it doesn't get below freezing for at least part of the day. The solution to the heating problem is simple then: simply don't. Open windows when it's above 50F / 10C (to give a healthy safety margin to the water pipes) and tell people to wear sweaters. Do this where it's possible and you'll offset the energy expenditure of heating in places were it actually earnestly gets col…

Do you live in a non tropical region?

I live in Seattle. It's 12C in my apartment right now, I have the windows open and I'm certainly not wearing any gloves. Hell, I'm not even wearing any socks. I'm wearing long pants and a thickish shirt with long sleeves, and I feel totally toasty.

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#203

Post by wowokay »

That makes sense, you live in Seattle where the temperature doesn’t fluctuate more then 20 degrees. If we are giving simple solutions and changing the focus to energy conservation why not just increase energy production? It’s not like our power needs are going down, how about focusing on innovations in that space before taking restrictive measures?

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#204

Post by antoniuschan99 »

5e92cb50239222b wrote: post #179
antoniuschan99 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised the opening the window part is still not been mentioned much. It's been several months since Hong Kong made all establishments to maintain air flow of 25 times per hour (something like that). It's definitely more difficult to tell colder climate countries to open windows, but really just wear a sweater or a jacket.

If your definition of "colder climate" is around 0°C, ugh-huh. It's −15°C where I live, and it's not even winter. In December-January I expect the usual −30-40°C, with down to −50°C for short periods of time. Open your windows for more than two minutes once every few hours and die.

I live in Toronto. You can still open the windows just wear a sweater, sweatpants, and socks.

When the polar vortex happened a few years ago we had no power for a week but the -40C is usually just in Jan-Feb.

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#205

Post by mdekkers »

neilwilson wrote: post #177
willyt wrote: post #72

> Pumping in adequate amounts of fresh outside air, however engineered, will challenge running costs as well as carbon status. This is wrong. Mechanical Heat Recovery Ventilation (MVHR) is a well established technology which can recycle 96% of the heat from the waste air in a house. It costs about the same to fit as a central heating system. Passive houses have very high Air Changes per Hour (ACH) compared to convent…

"There is no reason not to put MVHR in normal houses" There's no reason in new normal houses, but it is very often impossible to do it sensibly in the existing housing stock. But then there is no reason houses shouldn't be built in factories, shipped to site and assembled. After all we already do that for hotels and the like. Yet that hasn't happened yet either.

The fine folks at Hufhaus would like a word. As well as quite a few others….

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#206

Post by dredmorbius »

Sargos wrote: post #158
pstoll wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have a local school being built. This was the argument for no operable windows. Except … a pandemic! We are optimizing for the wrong thing IMO at the expense of simple practical, human driven comfort. Same reason we don’t have windows on the local trains anymore. Practically for people in classrooms at random times, being able to open a window should be an option. Only central control of when the ventilation / hea…

If it's still being built then it likely won't start being used until sometime next year and at that point we're back to optimizing for energy usage. It's best to pick a long term metric over a short term win when dealing with a building that will last for decades.

This presumes no further epidemics / pandemics, and discounts benefits to "normal" cold and flu season.

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#207

Post by ncphil »

Anyone heard about Corsi-Rosenthal boxes? https://cleanaircrew.org/box-fan-filters/. A box fan and 4 x 2 inch MERV 13 filters. Around $100, including the duct tape. This design is very effective, surpassing commercial air cleaners that are three times more expensive in independent tests. https://cleanaircrew.org/ufaq/does-the-corsi-rosenthal-box-w....

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#208

Post by anonporridge »

WalterBright wrote: post #80
anonporridge wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A potentially fantastic outcome from all this is that many more public and private spaces will be designed and retrofitted with very good ventilation. Beyond curbing the spread of natural airborne diseases, it also may decrease the attack vector in our societies for airborne bio-terrorism/warfare. And even beyond all that, we're becoming increasingly aware of how important clean air is for our overall health even wit…

A couple years ago I bought a CO2 meter, and was astonished to see it going over 1000ppm in my office. Since then, I always keep the window cracked, keeping the CO2 levels usually under 500. The meter was one of the best investments I ever made.

I've done the same recently for my home. It's tough to keep good interior air in the winter when the building is not designed for it.

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#209

Post by Danieru »

sillysaurusx wrote: post #188
BoorishBears wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same system. Heat recovery works both ways, maintaining heat out the outlets or maintaining heat at the inlets

That's interesting. It's tempting to think that if we build houses in slightly different ways, we could have energy efficient heating and cooling systems. It seems like humidity might be a problem.

Most high end houses in Japan are already built this way. Lots of insulation with a air exchanger. They are not as low energy as passive houses, but sell brand new at prices regular families can afford.

Re: Why don’t we just open the windows? Covid-19 prevention lost in translation

#210

Post by anonporridge »

WalterBright wrote: post #161
GekkePrutser wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah when our office got those meters it suddenly explained why I got pounding headaches after long days. I'm pretty sensitive to it apparently. I've seen it go as high as 1400 :(

Cognitive performance starts declining at 1000 ppm.

Makes me wonder if the atmospheric increase from ~280ppm to the current 420ppm over the past 200 years is having some minor, but statistically significant effect on our collective cognition.

If it is, it's probably far overwhelmed by the shear weight of more well educated people and better tools at our disposal.

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