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Australia to introduce new laws to force media platforms to unmask online trolls

reuters.com

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Re: Australia to introduce new laws to force media platforms to unmask online trolls

#41

Post by [deleted] »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #19
_-david-_ wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The online world SHOULD be a wild west, away from government reach, in my opinion. I would agree to an extent, but I think there are a few examples where the government should step in. Child porn being the biggest.

All of the things where this legitimately applies are things that aren't really happening on the internet. They're happening in some specific place. Are there pedophiles abusing children in your country? Then go arrest them. They won't be posting anything on the internet while they're in prison. Are there pedophiles abusing children in some other country? That is that country's problem, not yours. Nothing about the i…

[deleted]

Re: Australia to introduce new laws to force media platforms to unmask online trolls

#42

Post by Eelongate »

ggm wrote: post #13
macdaknife wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your answer not true. In fact, the "Wild West" is still in fact a reality. 1. Land damage as in the largest public lands system in the world? 2. Violence against women who were among the first in the world given the right to vote? 3. Violence against people that were plenty violent? 4. Cowboys spoke many languages. Your point is what? 5. Chicago is the "Wild West", huh? 6. Immigration is good, depending. Leave the in…

Why do you think the cows existed? Chicago is where the wild west cows wound up. Cowboys existed because barons of beef on the hoof wanted cheap Mexican (Spanish speaking) vaccero labour to move cattle, trampling down sheep and other farming fences, to exploit prairie grasses without paying land damage costs, to ship meat to Chicago to feed the exploding eastern state population. Cowboy culture and wild West was expl…

> Dodge city cowboys are a myth based on thin facts and nothing about the wild west is good regarding internet governance

Nothing about the real wild west as you describe it has anything to do with the internet. Where are the analogous internet cows or commercial exploitation of internet prairies, or sweeps westward? This is all nonsensical. The literal reality of the wild west has nothing to do with regulating "trolls" (criticism of politicians) online.

Re: Australia to introduce new laws to force media platforms to unmask online trolls

#43

Post by sneedenheimer »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #32
gcau wrote: post #2

>The online world should not be a wild west where bots and bigots and trolls and others are anonymously going around and can harm people I can't express how much I hate this. The online world SHOULD be a wild west, away from government reach, in my opinion.

There should be both. There should be wild free parts for grownups who can't easily be traumatized, manipulated or tricked and also fenced gardens for those vulnerable (kids, grannies, religious etc whoever is easily trollable). Places where every non-techie goes nowadays (i.e. Facebook) should be censored and guarded strictly, the rest should be free and wild.

Isn't Facebook already censored and guarded strictly? And you won't have wild free parts for grownups if you let the government legislate against "trolls" and "bigots" on the internet. Today they'll just force Facebook into removing "harmful" content but you are incredibly naive if you think they'll stop there.

Re: Australia to introduce new laws to force media platforms to unmask online trolls

#44

Post by devtul »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #32
gcau wrote: post #2

>The online world should not be a wild west where bots and bigots and trolls and others are anonymously going around and can harm people I can't express how much I hate this. The online world SHOULD be a wild west, away from government reach, in my opinion.

There should be both. There should be wild free parts for grownups who can't easily be traumatized, manipulated or tricked and also fenced gardens for those vulnerable (kids, grannies, religious etc whoever is easily trollable). Places where every non-techie goes nowadays (i.e. Facebook) should be censored and guarded strictly, the rest should be free and wild.

I think about this approach every two weeks, when I hear that somewhere in the world there's a new initiative to treat the internet like a kindergarten. Sure why not, but I would like to sign up for the wild west, the easily offended and gullible can live happily on the safe side, thanks.

Re: Australia to introduce new laws to force media platforms to unmask online trolls

#45

Post by AnthonyMouse »

_-david-_ wrote: post #34
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of the things where this legitimately applies are things that aren't really happening on the internet. They're happening in some specific place. Are there pedophiles abusing children in your country? Then go arrest them. They won't be posting anything on the internet while they're in prison. Are there pedophiles abusing children in some other country? That is that country's problem, not yours. Nothing about the i…

>Are there pedophiles abusing children in your country? Then go arrest them. They won't be posting anything on the internet while they're in prison. And how do you stop the spread of the child porn already on the internet? Just leave it up since you can arrest people who make it or consume it? There are other things the government should probably stop as well. C&C servers for malware. What is your solution when the p…

> And how do you stop the spread of the child porn already on the internet? Just leave it up since you can arrest people who make it or consume it?

Who is paying for bulletproof hosting of controversial materials when anyone producing or consuming it is in prison?

> C&C servers for malware. What is your solution when the people involved in malware are in another country and that country isn't taking care of the problem?

What's your solution? Hacking the C&C servers in violation of the laws of whatever country they're in? That already is the "wild west" solution.

The alternative would be something like voluntary blocking by endpoints and firewalls, which nobody would have any reason not to use as long as the block list contains only things like this which nobody actually wants, and therefore doesn't require any government mandates.

Re: Australia to introduce new laws to force media platforms to unmask online trolls

#46

Post by Eelongate »

_-david-_ wrote: post #38
Eelongate wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laws for that sort of thing already exist, so that's obviously not what they're talking about when they say "unmask trolls". It's clear these Australian politicians are authoritarians who are upset about people insulting them online.

Of course laws already exist and the laws give the government the power to remove servers and other things like that. This means the current laws prevent the web from being the wild west. Just to be clear, I am against this law, but trying to say we should have the wild west seems like a bad idea.

> This means the current laws prevent the web from being the wild west.

If you take 'wild west' to be pure anarchy free from any law, then sure. But I don't think that's what is actually meant, nor does it describe the real wild west, nor even the popular perception of the wild west. Pop-media depictions of the wild west are filled with sheriffs, bounty hunters, judges, etc. That wild west outlaws exist as a trope implies the existence of laws for these outlaws to violate. Utter absolute lawlessness is not the implication of 'wild west'.

Re: Australia to introduce new laws to force media platforms to unmask online trolls

#47

Post by hellojesus »

vmception wrote: post #36
hellojesus wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What could possibly be the consequence for lying?

Believe it or not, jail.

Yes, but what charges could someone possibly levy against someone else for lying? Unless they're breaking some other law which already exists on the books, making this mostly a redundant constraint.

Re: Australia to introduce new laws to force media platforms to unmask online trolls

#48

Post by qwerty456127 »

devtul wrote: post #44
qwerty456127 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be both. There should be wild free parts for grownups who can't easily be traumatized, manipulated or tricked and also fenced gardens for those vulnerable (kids, grannies, religious etc whoever is easily trollable). Places where every non-techie goes nowadays (i.e. Facebook) should be censored and guarded strictly, the rest should be free and wild.

I think about this approach every two weeks, when I hear that somewhere in the world there's a new initiative to treat the internet like a kindergarten. Sure why not, but I would like to sign up for the wild west, the easily offended and gullible can live happily on the safe side, thanks.

Exactly. I used yo be a total Internet freedom proponent and that's what I want for myself but now as everybody (of whom the majority is mentally unprepared) is on Facebook I admit it makes no sense - Internet kindergartens have to be there for the people who need them (and most of these people just naturally go to places like Facebook and Instagram).

Re: Australia to introduce new laws to force media platforms to unmask online trolls

#49

Post by qwerty456127 »

sneedenheimer wrote: post #43
qwerty456127 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be both. There should be wild free parts for grownups who can't easily be traumatized, manipulated or tricked and also fenced gardens for those vulnerable (kids, grannies, religious etc whoever is easily trollable). Places where every non-techie goes nowadays (i.e. Facebook) should be censored and guarded strictly, the rest should be free and wild.

Isn't Facebook already censored and guarded strictly? And you won't have wild free parts for grownups if you let the government legislate against "trolls" and "bigots" on the internet. Today they'll just force Facebook into removing "harmful" content but you are incredibly naive if you think they'll stop there.

They won't stop themselves. We have to invite them to police specific parts and stop them when they want to expand their control further. We generally like police to patrol the city and guard kindergartens etc but don't invite them to station in our bedrooms.

Isn't Facebook already censored and guarded strictly? Not sufficiently apparently. There still are a lot of weirdos, bullshitters and political trolls there AFAIK (but I admit I didn't really check - I just read about that a lot, incl. here on HN). I.e. fact-checking should be enforced, whoever is caught on repeated intentional lying with purpose to manipulate audience should be banned.

Re: Australia to introduce new laws to force media platforms to unmask online trolls

#50

Post by BFLpL0QNek »

bamboozled wrote: post #23

I read a lot of these wacko things coming out of Australia, but is any of it really enforced? Wasn't there a thing about banning encryption? I remember when Malcolm Turnbull made the quote: “The laws of mathematics are very commendable, but the only law that applies in Australia is the law of Australia,” [1] https://www.newscientist.com/article/2140747-laws-of-mathema...

Australia is a highly compliant/obedient society. It’s also highly litigious, lots of fines for anything and anything. It’s the defamation capital of the world.

Yes this will be enforced, it’ll be enforced selectively against critics of the current government. There is a video of the announcement with the current PM grinning and smirking in the background like a little kid when this is discussed https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/r3qh1m/the_way_s....

The current pm is coming under a lot of criticism recently as well as other mp’s. There’s an election coming up in May so this is convenient timing. Recently a popular YouTube comedian / journalist had the anti terror police let loose on him for criticising mp’s with accusations of corruption. https://www.michaelwest.com.au/tamed-estate-arrest-of-friend...

Australia has no bill of rights for its citizens and the current government seem extremely self serving for personal gain.

The new Amazon documentary Burning about the 2019 bushfires goes on bit of an attack of the current Australian PM.

Australia is still very much the “Lucky country” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lucky_Country

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