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Bank transfers as a payment method

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Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#301

Post by askvictor »

akdor1154 wrote: post #139
laurencei wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it is 24 hours for the first, then instant after that.

What a coincidence, a fraud protection scheme that happens to make NPP unsuitable for retail payments right off the bat. Surely unintentional and nothing to do with banks and credit cards wanting to preserve their racket of skimming every purchase in the country.

I've never experienced that, and as others have said, it's not true of all banks; most bill it as near-instant.

I think the biggest barrier to adoption for retail payments is a visibility issue - most people I've spoken to have no idea what Osko or PayID are.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#302

Post by baby »

Ekaros wrote: post #173
baby wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not a stablecoin with lower fees?

How do stablecoins make money? That is how do they pay for everything they do? It either has to be fees or some sort of investment. And investments can always crash, thus resulting loss of money...

Transfer fees.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#303

Post by baby »

jokethrowaway wrote: post #229
baby wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not a stablecoin with lower fees?

Because you should be skeptical about their claims about being backed by real money.

Some projects are actually extremely serious and audited. For example, Paxos/USDP, USDC. Diem/Libra's proposition was exactly that also.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#304

Post by neom »

OJFord wrote: post #297
neom wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you need more than just an account number? Either way yes, it's a lot easier to put someones email address into a box and a $ and hit send. I'd love to know who you bank with such that you can just give an account number, no name etc and have the money move, in my 30 years of banking (Scotland, Canada, USA) I've never heard of that.

Name (only optionally checked), sort code & account number (which are not meaningfully distinct to an end user and I meant both by 'account number'). UK. Email seems at best no better to me, since why would I assume the address I use to speak to someone is the same one they use for their bank account? Or the particular bank account they want the money sent to?

I think you're misunderstanding how the system works. The email or txt is just to send the link/code. In theory you could open the email and copy/paste the link to someone else and they could deposit it into their own account. You just click the link, it directs you to select your banking portal, you login like you would and accept the funds into your account. Works on web and apps. Canadian banks all use what is called the interac network, it's a real time interbanking network operated by a non-profit intermediary company funded by the banks, also has it's own consumer phone support etc etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interac

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#305

Post by Tijdreiziger »

ThrowAwayIRUK wrote: post #227
xioxox wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly, some of the in-person debit card payments I make from my German bank appear to work internally as direct debits. They appear as "SEPA-ELV-LASTSCHRIFT" on statement. Other card payments are just called "KARTENZAHLUNG". Interestingly, the Lastschrift (direct debit) payments seem reversible on my bank interface, so I could get the money back (presumably invoking letters from the company and debt collector…

Depends on which card you have used and which scheme was used to process; In general, "double scheme cards" (MC + Maestro on one card) should offer you the option to choose, while at the POS, which scheme should be used; the thing is, the merchant is not required to offer you this question, and there is a "default scheme" on such cards. This means, in cases the merchant does not ask you, the default scheme is chosen,…

I just want to say that I really appreciate your 'insider' comments in this thread. I have always found payments technologies a fascinating and underappreciated topic.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#306

Post by [deleted] »

Findecanor wrote: post #164
l33tman wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Klarna has been aggressive in trying to push consumers into acknowledging Klarna to pull from their accounts lately. People are used to Klarna here (Sweden), with their "pay on invoice in 14 days for no additional fee" since long, but now they're trying to leverage that into getting customers setup with their bank accounts. Of course they are not going to use this to explicitly steal from customers but still you wond…

I would not trust Klarna for anything. Klarna's use of dark patterns on the web for leading people into debt over choosing other payment methods has been outlawed in Sweden, but I've read that they have continued doing it in other countries.

[deleted]

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#307

Post by Tijdreiziger »

leokennis wrote: post #278
elric wrote: post #75

The article is factually incorrect when it talks about "SEPA payments", claiming they are a "pull" mechanism. What it probably meant to talk about, is SEPA Direct Debits -- where the counterpart charges your account, as opposed to you paying the counterpart. Given that these direct debit agreements are revokable at any point in time, I doubt the claims of very high fraud rate. A normal SEPA payment, is a "push" affai…

In The Netherlands, over 90% of all domestic payments initiated by “regular people” are SEPA Instant Payments, meaning booked on the other persons account no matter their bank within 5 seconds. They’re free to send and receive. Source: I worked on implementing Instant Payments at the biggest Dutch bank.

Wait, so direct debit and iDEAL together account for less than 10% of consumer payments? That's shockingly low.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#308

Post by garaetjjte »

isbvhodnvemrwvn wrote: post #245
odiroot wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I make payments to the benelux, france, germany, spain and poland, and they go all over the push mechanism. Direct debit is for utilities, and that's about it. SEPA direct debit is a really really popular thing in Germany. Most utilities prefer (quite understandably) to pull from you instead of waiting for your transfer. Even landlords usually give you an agreement form to pull your rent out of your account. I got…

There are also some third parties which utilize the fact that transfers within the same bank are instant - they have bank accounts in all of those and a settlement system built on top of that. You transfer the money to them, and then they send a transfer directly from the bank of recipient. It's nearly instant, but has some limits to it (several thousand euros). In fact it's quite jarring when you have companies try…

>You transfer the money to them, and then they send a transfer directly from the bank of recipient

Since few years banks also provide APIs for redirecting to transfer form prefilled with payment processor details, so you don't have to enter them manually.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#309

Post by jpgvm »

Paying by bank transfer is pretty much universally accepted in Thailand now after the pandemic severely reduced reliance on cash. even tiny vendors will do bank transfer with a QR code now.

Better yet there are no fees so it's great for merchants too.

Unfortunately online is a different story. For now even bank transfers are usually mediated by a 3rd party that charges fees and is generally a nuisance. hopefully that is fixed soon too.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#310

Post by leokennis »

Tijdreiziger wrote: post #307
leokennis wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In The Netherlands, over 90% of all domestic payments initiated by “regular people” are SEPA Instant Payments, meaning booked on the other persons account no matter their bank within 5 seconds. They’re free to send and receive. Source: I worked on implementing Instant Payments at the biggest Dutch bank.

Wait, so direct debit and iDEAL together account for less than 10% of consumer payments? That's shockingly low.

No, SDD is a lot of the total transaction volume. Everyone has a mortgage, phone plan, energy contract etc. and that is all SDD.

iDeal is of course the default for webshops, it’s big too.

But the 90% I referred to are “person to person” payments.

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