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2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed

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Re: 2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed

#121
post #52

When are they going to build a small, cheap electric car? Model S, X, Y, 3 all those cars are heavy tanks. I'm quite tired of those companies always aiming for rich customers. If Musk was really for the environment, he would try to make those cars affordable. I guess Tesla doesn't have the production capacity to make a high production cheaper car yet?

There are tonnes of reasonably priced PHEVs from other manufacturers, that are IMO great choices for people who simply want reliable, flexible cars that use very little gas. For example the PHEV versions of the Toyota RAV4, Kia Niro, Hyundai Santa Fe and Ioniq, Honda Clarity, Ford Escape, etc. Fully electric for city driving, gas when you need it for long trips, reasonably priced, from manufacturers who have been making reliable cars for decades. More practical and generally cheaper than fully electric cars.

Tesla are a luxury brand, and they know it, I think they’d have trouble competing in the more mass market/practical space. They’ll probably move there eventually, but I’m not surprised they’re sticking with their more luxury niche for now, they’re probably not yet capable of keeping costs as low as traditional car makers, while keeping quality high. They’re basically still learning how to build cars at scale.

Re: 2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed

#122

While it's pretty obvious that many manufacturers are coming out with their own EVs, there seems to be something of a bubble that isn't paying attention or totally ignores this. It will be interesting to see how the EV space evolves once there are mass amounts of competitor vehicles available/on the road. Specifically interesting to see how it affects valuations for these companies. I suspect Tesla's growth rate will…

>E.g. F-150 vs Cybertruck. I'm in Texas, and there are stereotype supporting large number of truck owners around. Of the ones I've spoken to about Cybertruck, not one of them are interested in the body. People like how their Fords/Dodge/Chevy trucks look, so taking the design so far away from the norm just seems like an odd decision. Worse than the original Prius design.

You mean the truck bed was never more than a styling accent? Say it ain't so! All the people that need it have long figured out they would rather use a van.

Re: 2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed

#123
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PHEVs make more sense to me anyway. For the majority of trips they run off the battery which makes them just as good as a BEV, but they have no problems with range and they are a whole lot cheaper.

Range isn’t an issue for anybody who has owned an EV. Your behavior changed when you got an iPhone and you moved on with your life. Same thing here.

Range absolutely is an issue for people who have owned an EV. More importantly, it is an issue for people who haven't owned an EV. Claiming it isn't a problem because current EV owners are OK with it is preaching to the choir.

But even if range really isn't a problem, a PHEV makes more sense to me because they are cheaper and make better use of our limited battery supply. A PHEV with 50 miles range will be just about as efficient as a BEV for the vast majority of driving, but it gets by with a much smaller battery pack. We have the battery supply to make nearly every new car a PHEV, but we could only make a small fraction of them BEVs.

Re: 2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed

#124
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This source says they are only 1280×960 which ML reduces to 160x120 depth grid? Seems crazily low resolution to me and also somewhat amazing they can do what they can with that (which I think doesn't matter much as it's still scary if they can't avoid obvious concrete obstacles or do the opposite brake ing op says) https://twitter.com/greentheonly/status/1412597377228226562 https://www.reddit.com/r/teslamotors/commen…

Yeah, humans with eyesight that bad are not allowed on the road (for good reason).

Not a lot of those around at age 16, which is the last time anyone cares to check.

Re: 2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed

#125
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I got my Model Y in June. Yes, sometimes it has phantom braking. For reference, on a 9 hour drive to LV from my house, it happened maybe 5 times, and they were all fixed with a mild press of the accelerator. If this is a deal breaker for you, don’t get a Tesla. If the failed promise of FSD is a deal breaker for you, don’t get a Tesla (I don’t have it and don’t want it). Other than the minor issues (for me) of…

Maybe I am old-school but 5 times in a 9 hour drive seems unacceptably high for a potentially dangerous event. Is it incorrect to believe the car brakes at full braking force? Is there some predictor of the car making this error that makes it easier to handle?

> Is it incorrect to believe the car brakes at full braking force?

For me, that is incorrect. I would not consider it dangerous at all.

For me, it was more like lifting off the accelerator for a split second if I were in full control.

One time that my car did brake aggressively was when an 18-wheeler was gradually easing into my lane (not on Vegas drive). It was probably a slight over-reaction, but probably one that would have saved my life if the truck had veered into my lane (likely dodging something or sleeping truck driver).

I have heard of people getting the aggressive braking phantom brake experience, but I haven’t. It’s also trivially easy to address just by pressing the accelerator — the driver is supposed to be paying attention.

Fwiw, this is a deal breaker for a Tesla for one friend of mine. She has motion sickness that is frighteningly easy to trigger (autopilot or even just me driving, and I’m not an aggressive driver). She’s a bit of a motion sickness snowflake, and she readily admits as much.

Predictions seem to be the following:

1. Driving into the shadows of 18-wheelers.

2. Driving into the shadows of overpasses.

3. Driving on roads that are reflective and have weird patterns on them. I don’t know how to describe this. My buddy and I consistently experience this a time or three going up the mountain towards Tehachapi between Bakersfield and Barstow. My guess is that this problem is or should be solvable by machine learning (same phantom braking at same time of day at the same place with driver override).

My biggest complaint about autopilot is that it aggressively turns the brights on at night. I’m not sure if it is outside of legal or reasonable use of brights, but I just find it easier to take full control — I try to be a friendly driver.

One last thing that I didn’t mention in my original post — using autopilot in stop-and-go traffic is an absolute dream. It takes a ton of hassle and stress out of that type of driving.

Re: 2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed

#126

I've owned a Model X for a year. It dates from before they removed radar, so autopilot still works very well. The rest of the car, however, does not. It is the least reliable car I have ever known. I am currently tracking ten faults, and waiting for my fifth service, which could only be booked with nearly a month to wait. The most serious faults involve the car sometimes failing to start without a hard reboot first (…

Had a Model Y for a year now Hands down the best car I have ever had and I have owned Audis, BMWs and other high end cars. Whenever I have to drive a non Tesla me and my wife just can’t stop laughing at how ridiculous they are…it’s like operating steam engines Sucks that others had problems with it but everyone I know including ourselves couldn’t be more happy with their Tesla

Ridiculous how? I loved the experience of driving a Tesla, but what’s so significantly better that it would cause laughter?

Re: 2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed

#127
post #69

I have an early build 2018 Model 3 Performance. I have experienced almost zero quality issues. I use Autopilot frequently and have experienced phantom braking maybe 5 times ever in 3+ years, and certainly isn't a deal-breaker. In fact it's improved dramatically since I first got the car. I feel like all I ever hear from outside the Tesla owner bubble is quality issues, complaints, weird problems I've never experience…

I owned a BMW 328i for 20 years. I loved that car dearly. I've now got 94,000 miles on a 2018 Model 3 long range. It's more fun than the BMW in every way. Handles better, accelerates faster, it's much quieter inside. The sound system is much better than the HKs in the BMW. It's more comfortable. I can drive for 4 hours straight with no discomfort. I don't have autopilot cuz my insurance guy wouldn't give me a discoun…

You’re comparing a BMW designed in the late 90s to a brand new car.. If it wasn’t better that would be concerning.

Re: 2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why you're seeing things like the extended bed options of the new tailgate designs. Also, most people don't need to carry 6'+ items. They do need to take the ankle biters along and maybe haul some stuff in the back. The trade off seems to be accepted going by number of units sold. If you keep the 6' bed plus the comfy backseats as you've mentioned, it no longer fits in standard garages.

> hey do need to take the ankle biters along and maybe haul some stuff in the back. But, that is why they have SUV's and minivans I thought. It is only now sort of sinking in that pickups are no longer used much as work vehicles. Yes I agree about the excessive length keeping the crew cab and long bed. In fact I think the current F150 is already too big. So that's why I miss the old 2-door style with the long bed. I…

> I mean what is next, a Miata-like sportster with 3 rows of bench seats?

That is essentially what most CUVs are wishing they were these days. Outside of a Porsche Macan - most don’t really make it work.

Re: 2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed

#129
post #52

When are they going to build a small, cheap electric car? Model S, X, Y, 3 all those cars are heavy tanks. I'm quite tired of those companies always aiming for rich customers. If Musk was really for the environment, he would try to make those cars affordable. I guess Tesla doesn't have the production capacity to make a high production cheaper car yet?

They are beyond production capacity with "rich cars" (IMO Y and 3 especially are firmly middle class cars). Why would they go into a market that's even higher volume and lower margins when they can't cover the more profitable market demand ? If anything, other manufacturers are trying to get out of that market segment because regulation is making it too unprofitable to be in (eg. mandatory safety features, CO2 emissi…

$60k electric cars are mostly an upper middle class thing. I haven’t met anyone who is under $100k/yr individual income and bought a Tesla. (Excluding bank of mom and dad)

It’s not a civic.

Re: 2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed

#130
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Had a Model Y for a year now Hands down the best car I have ever had and I have owned Audis, BMWs and other high end cars. Whenever I have to drive a non Tesla me and my wife just can’t stop laughing at how ridiculous they are…it’s like operating steam engines Sucks that others had problems with it but everyone I know including ourselves couldn’t be more happy with their Tesla

> Sucks that others had problems with it but everyone I know including ourselves couldn’t be more happy with their Tesla This is my experience talking to everyone I know with a Tesla. Not saying the complaints aren't real, but the internet really does bring out the selection bias when it comes to people having issues with their purchase. If you look at Consumer Reports for most satisfied car purchases, all of the Tes…

Someone else itt said that Tesla is ranked last in terms of reliability

https://www.sfgate.com/tech/article/Tesla-ranks-almost-dead-...

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