2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed • Hacker News Board

Re: 2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed

#61

Post by seoaeu » Sat, Nov 27, 2021, 9:11 PM UTC

throwaway81523 wrote: post #46

dylan604 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>E.g. F-150 vs Cybertruck. I'm in Texas, and there are stereotype supporting large number of truck owners around. Of the ones I've spoken to about Cybertruck, not one of them are interested in the body. People like how their Fords/Dodge/Chevy trucks look, so taking the design so far away from the norm just seems like an odd decision. Worse than the original Prius design.

I can't understand the deal with the electric F150 or almost any other modern pickup. They all have full sized 4 door interiors now, so as the truck has gotten bigger, the truck bed (the actually useful part that distinguishes a truck from a car) has gotten smaller. They are usually under 5.5 feet now, so there's many types of furniture you can't really move in them, which you could move in older, smaller pickups. An…

I think there is a reasonable argument to make that (many) pickup trucks are purchased for aesthetics and the "usefulness" of them as trucks is largely irrelevant. As one friend pointed out, a work truck should be expected to be dirty and any truck that isn't dirty is just meant for show

Re: 2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed

#62

Post by castratikron » Sat, Nov 27, 2021, 9:12 PM UTC

dylan604 wrote: post #44

jefftk wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original Prius design was very conventional: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:1st-Toyota-Prius.jpg The second generation is the well-known streamlined shape: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2008_Toyota_Prius_(N... (I think the shape was probably not a mistake on Toyota's part. A lot of people were buying them partly because they wanted other people to know they had them, and the shape indicated thi…

Maybe I have the wrong car model. What was the one with the odd shape with the rear wheels covered, etc?

Honda Insight?

Re: 2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed

#63

Post by steelframe » Sat, Nov 27, 2021, 9:12 PM UTC

zhoujianfu wrote: post #47

LeoPanthera wrote: post #4

I've owned a Model X for a year. It dates from before they removed radar, so autopilot still works very well. The rest of the car, however, does not. It is the least reliable car I have ever known. I am currently tracking ten faults, and waiting for my fifth service, which could only be booked with nearly a month to wait. The most serious faults involve the car sometimes failing to start without a hard reboot first (…

My first X (2016) went to the shop 17 times in the first year, all for different issues. It’s now finally more or less working reliably. I got a new X in 2019 and so far it’s had no issues at all.

> I got a new X in 2019

I certainly salute you for your tenacity with the brand. After I unloaded my 2016 Model X, you couldn't convince me to touch another one of those cars with a 10-foot pole.

Re: 2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed

#64

Post by moonchrome » Sat, Nov 27, 2021, 9:12 PM UTC

jokoon wrote: post #52

When are they going to build a small, cheap electric car? Model S, X, Y, 3 all those cars are heavy tanks. I'm quite tired of those companies always aiming for rich customers. If Musk was really for the environment, he would try to make those cars affordable. I guess Tesla doesn't have the production capacity to make a high production cheaper car yet?

They are beyond production capacity with "rich cars" (IMO Y and 3 especially are firmly middle class cars). Why would they go into a market that's even higher volume and lower margins when they can't cover the more profitable market demand ?

If anything, other manufacturers are trying to get out of that market segment because regulation is making it too unprofitable to be in (eg. mandatory safety features, CO2 emissions rates for ICEs), a lot of A segment is not getting refreshed in EU/is being discontinued. You will probably see small "expensive" cars like Electric Mini and Smart cars.

Re: 2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed

#65

Post by georgewfraser » Sat, Nov 27, 2021, 9:12 PM UTC

I don’t know how to square this review with my own experience of owning a Y for a year. The autopilot is nearly perfect, noticeably better than a human driver in stop and go traffic on the highway. Given the history of downright dishonest reviews by old school car people with an irrational hatred of Tesla, this review really should have been accompanied by video evidence of phantom braking.

Re: 2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed

#66

Post by zarkov99 » Sat, Nov 27, 2021, 9:14 PM UTC

LeoPanthera wrote: post #4

I've owned a Model X for a year. It dates from before they removed radar, so autopilot still works very well. The rest of the car, however, does not. It is the least reliable car I have ever known. I am currently tracking ten faults, and waiting for my fifth service, which could only be booked with nearly a month to wait. The most serious faults involve the car sometimes failing to start without a hard reboot first (…

I have a model S P85+ that is now 8+ years old. Its the best car I have ever had, bar none, and I have had nice cars before. Its still smooth, powerful, comfortable, silent, safe and I still love to drive it. I have had issues with it, over the years, but every single time, Tesla stepped up, sorted the issue in the most convenient way possible, sometimes working my driveway, sometimes by driving a loaner to my office. I have never had a car that was better or service that was anywhere in the same class. I will likely never buy any other brand of car. Dear reader, please buy a Tesla, its the best car out there, its the safest car for your family and its made in America, by a company that is showing all of us that America can still innovate, still lead the world.

Re: 2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed

#67

Post by muglug » Sat, Nov 27, 2021, 9:14 PM UTC

georgewfraser wrote: post #65

I don’t know how to square this review with my own experience of owning a Y for a year. The autopilot is nearly perfect, noticeably better than a human driver in stop and go traffic on the highway. Given the history of downright dishonest reviews by old school car people with an irrational hatred of Tesla, this review really should have been accompanied by video evidence of phantom braking.

> this review really should have been accompanied by video evidence of phantom braking

There's a video review in the article which includes many examples of phantom breaking.

Re: 2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed

#68

Post by mensetmanusman » Sat, Nov 27, 2021, 9:14 PM UTC

obnauticus wrote: post #34

ushakov wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i know someone who has a fully-charged model 3 they had spent extra 20k euros to improve it for instance: they added custom roof sealing, because it was getting too loud inside when driving on the highways and then they (tastefully) refitted it with custom-made carbon elements on the inside and the outside tuned/improved Teslas are not that uncommon if you know some owners

For something priced as high as the TM3, TMY or TMX, I find it hilarious that someone would spend even more money just to bring it to parity with other the automotive "luxuries" such as sound deadening. Mind you, most of these luxuries are have been provided by other economy cars at Just as an observation I don't think the new money buying these cars understands or has ever sat in an actual nice car at the same price…

Batteries are expensive, it’s going to be challenging for everyone to match the cost structure of ice.

Re: 2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed

#69

Post by BluSyn » Sat, Nov 27, 2021, 9:15 PM UTC

I have an early build 2018 Model 3 Performance. I have experienced almost zero quality issues. I use Autopilot frequently and have experienced phantom braking maybe 5 times ever in 3+ years, and certainly isn't a deal-breaker. In fact it's improved dramatically since I first got the car.

I feel like all I ever hear from outside the Tesla owner bubble is quality issues, complaints, weird problems I've never experienced. When I talk to other Tesla owners, they also are confused by this phenomena, because the vast majority I've talked to have the same experience as me; complete joy in the product, very few if any complaints at all. Especially relative to any other car I have owned or is available on the market today, I wouldn't recommend buying anything else.

When people talk about annoying Tesla fanboys, this is the core of problem. On the one hand you have the public perception of Tesla cars, based on reviews like this one. Then you have actual experience from the *majority* of owners being the exact opposite. Tesla certainly has issues, but so does GM, Ford, and every other auto maker. Reviewers rarely shout these issues in the headlines. But with Tesla it's always different.

What are we do to about this instead? Why is every review of Tesla highlighting the flaws, whereas every review of non-EV cars highlight the positives? How come Tesla owners don't get to write about their positive experiences without being called fanboys or shills?

Re: 2021 Tesla Model Y review: Nearly great, critically flawed

#70

Post by adam_arthur » Sat, Nov 27, 2021, 9:15 PM UTC

growt wrote: post #50

FireBeyond wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cameras in a Tesla are not 576mp (which is the closest approximation or estimate of our eyes), and nor do they have 21 stops of dynamic range (same). And they also don't have 16+ years, minimum, of 24/7 "non-machine learning" to augment their judgment.

I disagree with your second paragraph. Not all of your first 16 years are spent in driving situations (especially not 24h a day) but Tesla’s have driven many years in total and almost all of them can be applied to improve the AI running in all the cars.

Anybody familiar with the design Tesla uses for self driving?

Do they simply input video clips of common scenarios and what the correct output should be? Is it just a single neural net, or are there rules hard coded in? Multiple neural nets handling different things?

I assume there are many approaches to automated driving that are effectively dead ends. But would be interesting if just having enough video clips/correct corresponding behavior was enough to build a fully functioning model.