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Bank transfers as a payment method

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Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#291

Post by rambambram »

berkes wrote: post #218
rambambram wrote: post #130

> I expect we’ll see bank transfers as a more prominent part of the payment mix in much of the world. Interesting read. I have multiple clients in Europe who use my webshop system with simple bank transfers as the only payment method. It's so easy. No setting up shit like iDeal or Stripe or anything like that, no fees, just paying from one bank to the other. It comes so close to paying with cash. It's not instant so…

> It's so easy. No setting up shit like iDeal or Stripe.. While true, the friction with iDeal or Stripe is a lot lower than with bank-transfers. I've helped set up such payment systems (backends): the rate of non-paying (send reminders, etc) is far higher with bank-transfers than with iDeal. So much, that for many freelancers who send just a few dozens of invoices per year, it pays off (pun intended) to include an iD…

Oh definitely, it's not for every use case. If one just shuffles boxes through (roughly speaking) and competes on price, an automated system with all the well-known payment providers is better.

If you want to go bare bones, spend as little money as possible (on fees, setup costs and setup time, brain cycles) then I just want everybody to know that - at least in Europe - that's possible. Even with only a personal bank account (and some good bookkeeping, that is)!

> that for many freelancers who send just a few dozens of invoices per year

Let me be clear I'm not talking about invoices from freelancers who already did the work, I'm talking real webshop stuff (you buy and pay for goods and/or digital services on the spot).

The only 'problem' is that you have to wait one or two days (and three when there's a weekend) before you can start fullfilling an order. That's not for every use case, but definitely can work for a lot of use cases I think.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#292

Post by rambambram »

wila wrote: post #220
rambambram wrote: post #130

> I expect we’ll see bank transfers as a more prominent part of the payment mix in much of the world. Interesting read. I have multiple clients in Europe who use my webshop system with simple bank transfers as the only payment method. It's so easy. No setting up shit like iDeal or Stripe or anything like that, no fees, just paying from one bank to the other. It comes so close to paying with cash. It's not instant so…

> I just really miss the UK, stupid Brexit. I have to quadruple the amount of paperwork if I want to sell to the UK. It's not worth the hassle. Just not worth it. Had the same conclusion for a while for my webshop. It bothered me to say no to people from the UK, so ended up setting up a reseller account and chose to use that for the UK. Which - while not free - has now changed to my main payment system as it reduced…

> It bothered me to say no to people from the UK

Agree. I'm in a very lean situation now and can use my time better, otherwise it's worth looking into. There's a lot of good customers there, who also didn't ask for this Brexit thing.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#293

Post by krinchan »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #194
krinchan wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s crazy how much Zelle has taken off in my area. Home contractors. My barber. My family. Also the etiquette that’s emerged around using Zelle is funny too. If I’m paying someone new, they’ll normally have me send $1 as a test to make sure we all have the right contact info before sending the rest.

They should be able to request a payment instead of sending $1. If I go into Bank of America's app, I see "Send" "Request" and "Split" options. I do not see these options on BoA's website though, which is a dumb inconsistency.

Yeah it’s pretty inconsistent. I can request money through USAA but my barber’s bank doesn’t let him request, so he does the whole “Send $1” dance.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#294

Post by riedel »

odiroot wrote: post #153
hyperman1 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd have to agree. Everything in the article about Europe is technically correct, but it is such a small slice of the SEPA payments. The article is so misleading it might as well be wrong. I make payments to the benelux, france, germany, spain and poland, and they go all over the push mechanism. Direct debit is for utilities, and that's about it. For fraud, my bank provides a gui with active agreements. While I can't…

> I make payments to the benelux, france, germany, spain and poland, and they go all over the push mechanism. Direct debit is for utilities, and that's about it. SEPA direct debit is a really really popular thing in Germany. Most utilities prefer (quite understandably) to pull from you instead of waiting for your transfer. Even landlords usually give you an agreement form to pull your rent out of your account. I got…

From what I know there is also a different reason for the weirdnesses in Germany. Banks actually charged quite a lot for online transactions from your bank card. German shops are very cost sensitive here (why in many some time ago in most places you could not pay with credit card). So what they do is they use an intermediate that collects all those signed mandates. It even worked fully offline like with credit cards in the old days. It is crazy if you try to read the terms and conditions on a standard supermarket bill.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#295

Post by neom »

OJFord wrote: post #284
moberley wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The recipient token can also be a phone number capable of receiving a text message.

Sure fine, to be clear I meant bank account number - using an email address (or phone number) isn't clearly better to me (I think it's worse?) in any way, that's all.

Don't you need more than just an account number? Either way yes, it's a lot easier to put someones email address into a box and a $ and hit send. I'd love to know who you bank with such that you can just give an account number, no name etc and have the money move, in my 30 years of banking (Scotland, Canada, USA) I've never heard of that.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#296

Post by superzamp »

ThrowAwayIRUK wrote: post #71
manmal wrote: post #29

Just yesterday, I deposited money from my bank account to Coinbase via SEPA. Refreshed the Coinbase page, and it was there, ready to buy digital currency with - so, the transaction was instant, or almost so. The transfer didn’t cost me anything, and neither did it Coinbase (it seems). Coinbase seems to be positive the transaction will settle, or else it wouldn’t let me use the money immediately, right? Reversibility…

Leading Payment Engineer of one the most aggressive challenger banks in EU here: - first, SEPA has several message types - SEPA SCT: A standard transfer, usually settled the next day - SEPA SCT Inst: a realtime transfer, to be settled within 10 seconds max (check rulebook on ECB website) - SEPA SDD Core: Direct debit, this can be used to pay your utility bills e.g.; though you can revert this one up to a couple of mo…

SEPA SCT Inst is really great but banks seem to be dragging their feet on implementing it or charge a premium for using it. Probably the prospect of losing their juicy payments card issuer transaction fees isn't super appealing.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#297

Post by OJFord »

neom wrote: post #295
OJFord wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure fine, to be clear I meant bank account number - using an email address (or phone number) isn't clearly better to me (I think it's worse?) in any way, that's all.

Don't you need more than just an account number? Either way yes, it's a lot easier to put someones email address into a box and a $ and hit send. I'd love to know who you bank with such that you can just give an account number, no name etc and have the money move, in my 30 years of banking (Scotland, Canada, USA) I've never heard of that.

Name (only optionally checked), sort code & account number (which are not meaningfully distinct to an end user and I meant both by 'account number'). UK.

Email seems at best no better to me, since why would I assume the address I use to speak to someone is the same one they use for their bank account? Or the particular bank account they want the money sent to?

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#298

Post by askvictor »

stephen_g wrote: post #196
askvictor wrote: post #91

Australia's New Payment Platform performs bank transfers instantly, and can use email address, phone number, or business ID as a destination (the recipient must first have registered this with their bank). No fees. It's pretty decent. https://www.rba.gov.au/payments-and-infrastructure/new-payme...

Also there’s BPAY for bills and things which must be pretty cheap to vendors because it’s almost always an option for any kind of internet/phone/utility etc. invoice and never has a surcharge unlike credit card payments sometimes do. I’ve seen it for web payments but it’s not ideal because of the delay (usually like next business day) in processing.

I'm sure BPAY takes a cut somewhere along the way, and this is ultimately passed to consumers. And you can sometimes pay BPAY by credit card, and sometimes there is a surcharge for that.

Interestingly, Osko, the user-facing part of the NPP (as far as I understand it), is owned by BPAY. I'm still getting my head around the definitions of NPP, PayID, and Osko.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#299

Post by baby »

astrange wrote: post #89
baby wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usdt sure, although it’s working so far, but there’s plenty of legit stablecoin projects like usdc, or even paxos (which is what novi is using). Why isn’t stable applying to these coins?

I sent $50 in USDC yesterday and was charged $9 in fees, not counting the coinbase USD USDC fee which I think existed since I used a debit card. Legit crypto users[1] should let you pay with TransferWise. [1] ie online research chemical stores

Ah interesting, I guess USDC relies on Ethereum and so you're eating ETH's fees? I've never used USDC myself. I'm hearing Celo fees are around 1 cents.

Wise is also a great solution, but its speed is going to be dependent on a lot of factors: does it have a partnership with your bank, how long is the route it'll take, and how long each node will take to process a transfer on the route. It is streamlined though so the user experience is top notch, security wise it's a centralized system so the more people use it the more it becomes a single point of failure.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#300

Post by baby »

purple_turtle wrote: post #147
baby wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. India is a single country, cryptocurrencies are global 2. Nobody uses proof of work anymore (besides bitcoin)

> 2. Nobody uses proof of work anymore (besides bitcoin) And Ethereum and...

True, but Ethereum is moving away from it. If we're talking about modern cryptocurrencies, what's the point of including Bitcoin and Ethereum in discussions?
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