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Bank transfers as a payment method

bam.kalzumeus.com

81–90 of 335 posts

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#81
post #2

It's a no-brainer. Card processing fees are just too high (2.9% + $0.3). Account transfers bring more flexibility and convenience and costs almost nothing.

Well, are they really though? Sales taxes are more than twice that where I live, and anyway I don't have to pay it directly.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#82
post #6

UPI can potentially be scaled to all countries. I think the biggest USP of UPI is the interoperability between payment apps(Google Pay, Paytm, PhonePe, etc), VPAs(alice@icici, bob@axis, dan@upi, 9848123456@paytm) and banks. One could have an account with bank A, create a VPA with bank B and use that VPA to pay a business through virtually any of the payment apps(GPay, Paytm, PhonePe, BHIM, etc). The main pain point U…

I suppose that various KYC / AML checks are a significant obstacle to frictionless international payments; another is fraud protection.

I bet it's seriously harder to get two countries agree on the lists of undesirables, and streamline e.g. court protection across jurisdictions.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#83
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not a stablecoin with lower fees?

Because I'm more than a bit skeptical about all of the groups jumping on the 'lets mint our own coin' bandwagon. The number of stories of scam coins is large enough that I'll take my chances with Bitcoin for the moment and see which ones of the others survive over the longer term. I'm also a bit allergic to being marketed to in the name of the class of product, 'stable' has certain associations that I don't think app…

Usdt sure, although it’s working so far, but there’s plenty of legit stablecoin projects like usdc, or even paxos (which is what novi is using). Why isn’t stable applying to these coins?

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#84
post #2

It's a no-brainer. Card processing fees are just too high (2.9% + $0.3). Account transfers bring more flexibility and convenience and costs almost nothing.

You can probably get a volume discount on that 2.9% in the US. In Europe, Stripe starts at 1.4% + $0.3 for charging European cards.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#85
post #75

The article is factually incorrect when it talks about "SEPA payments", claiming they are a "pull" mechanism. What it probably meant to talk about, is SEPA Direct Debits -- where the counterpart charges your account, as opposed to you paying the counterpart. Given that these direct debit agreements are revokable at any point in time, I doubt the claims of very high fraud rate. A normal SEPA payment, is a "push" affai…

[deleted]

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#87
post #75

The article is factually incorrect when it talks about "SEPA payments", claiming they are a "pull" mechanism. What it probably meant to talk about, is SEPA Direct Debits -- where the counterpart charges your account, as opposed to you paying the counterpart. Given that these direct debit agreements are revokable at any point in time, I doubt the claims of very high fraud rate. A normal SEPA payment, is a "push" affai…

I think it's less "factually incorrect" and more "nuanced and incomplete".

As a European that moved between countries, I was very surprised when I learned that SEPA allows a "pull" mechanism even exists. I lived 30 years in Latvia without knowing this is a feature in SEPA because every single payment is a "push" mechanism. I'm not sure if banks can turn this feature off, or if it just culturally never gained traction.

On the other hand, payments via banks are fairly widespread C2B, because every bank offers a (custom and horrible) API that merchants can implement. So users can authenticate directly with their bank as if it were PayPal, and authorize a SEPA payment to the merchant's bank account.

In fact, services that care about user identity, will often use these bank APIs to perform authentication with a high degree of confidence about the received user information.

Then I moved to France, and every bank interaction is "pull" based. While friction in Latvia came from authenticating before initiating the "push", in France the friction comes from agreeing to direct debiting, and signing various authorization slips. Sometimes electronically, but sometimes you have to send them by mail before you can start paying for a long-running service by bank (this makes it very undesirable for one-off purchases. In fact it is so cumbersome, that I prefer to pay for many services by credit card every month)

> I doubt the claims of very high fraud rate.

If I provide my account number to a service provider, they can debit it without me explicitly authorizing them (I have to sign an authorization usually, but there's nothing "technically" blocking the counterparty). I suppose that could lead to high fraud rates.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#88
post #75

The article is factually incorrect when it talks about "SEPA payments", claiming they are a "pull" mechanism. What it probably meant to talk about, is SEPA Direct Debits -- where the counterpart charges your account, as opposed to you paying the counterpart. Given that these direct debit agreements are revokable at any point in time, I doubt the claims of very high fraud rate. A normal SEPA payment, is a "push" affai…

[deleted]

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#89
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I'm more than a bit skeptical about all of the groups jumping on the 'lets mint our own coin' bandwagon. The number of stories of scam coins is large enough that I'll take my chances with Bitcoin for the moment and see which ones of the others survive over the longer term. I'm also a bit allergic to being marketed to in the name of the class of product, 'stable' has certain associations that I don't think app…

Usdt sure, although it’s working so far, but there’s plenty of legit stablecoin projects like usdc, or even paxos (which is what novi is using). Why isn’t stable applying to these coins?

I sent $50 in USDC yesterday and was charged $9 in fees, not counting the coinbase USDUSDC fee which I think existed since I used a debit card.

Legit crypto users[1] should let you pay with TransferWise.

[1] ie online research chemical stores

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method

#90

When discussing Europe, you can't leave out the rise of mobile payments that work similar to India's UPI. For instance, in Sweden, "Swish"[0] has quickly taken over the market for casual payments, with free, instant, irreversible bank transfers between individuals using only the recipients phone number (or a QR code). They are a bunch of these systems, but currently they are all fractured into national systems, altho…

Tikkies are the Dutch equivalent. https://dutchreview.com/expat/tikkie-netherlands/

I'd say they have become obsolete ever since all major banks now support similar functionality (payment requests) + the enablement of instant payments across Dutch banks
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