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What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

economist.com

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Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#281

Post by bardan »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #275
bardan wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like I said in another response to you, it's a wonderful coincidence for a totalitarian government to be ruling over people who are so naturally deferential. There is no evidence of innate deference to totalitarian governments in Chinese people. Given environments out of control of the CCP, like Hong Kong or Taiwan, Chinese people eagerly engage in democratic processes.

If you think that it's impossible for Chinese (or other countries in general) to have a different attitude towards government then you should watch some videos by Kishore Mahbubani, ex-UN Security Council head, ex-Singapore diplomat. For example https://youtu.be/zBpmm5hdbFQ Furthermore, the characterization of China being "totalitarian" is wrong because China is in no way comparable to the likes of North Korea or Sau…

This is what totalitarian governments always claim. "We are the deterministic result of the people organizing themselves", generally a single ethnic group. Conveniently this also means an attack on the party is an attack on the ethnic group. The CCP was formed in the chaos of the early 20th century, buoyed by the Soviets, and maintained its power in part by astonishing acts of brutality on the Chinese people. If the "Chinese peoples values" you're referring to includes a significant streak of sadomasochism you can fill me in.

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#282

Post by FooBarWidget »

bardan wrote: post #277
FooBarWidget wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I'm trying to say that "In the PRC people are jailed for complaining too much, or complaining about the wrong thing" is a mischaracterization at best, a complete falsehood at worst. I've found this to be the case after research. But again, you don't have to believe me if you don't want to. Just don't claim I am insincere.

> And I'm trying to say that "In the PRC people are jailed for complaining too much, or complaining about the wrong thing" is a mischaracterization at best, a complete falsehood at worst. I've found this to be the case after research. I had an apologist describe it to be once like "if you want to suggest improvements in local government, or you want to make a request, as long as you do it respectfully, then there is…

You're just going in circles. Chinese people don't believe she has ever been in danger, and they believe Zhang will be dealt with.

Let's see who's right in a few years from now. Maybe she'll be vacationing in Europe like Jack Ma is today while Zhang received a punishment.

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#283

Post by bardan »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #280
bardan wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'd better not!

Rest assured then. Chinese foreign policy is based on non-interference.

Sorry, I should have been clearer. My previous response more precisely:

> And so what if you view them as totalitarian? By and large the Chinese do not.

They'd better not!

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#284

Post by bardan »

Teever wrote: post #276
bardan wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something funny and illustrative about the PRC for me was getting into shortwave radio. Let me explain. Sometimes certain people will tell you that the CCP isn't so censorious, that it's all Western hyperbole and propaganda, that most other governments are equivalent. But then you spin your dial through the shortwave broadcast bands and, no exaggeration, every 6 broadcasts or so will be the CCP jamming another broadc…

Just to play devil's advocate on that one, but maybe the Chinese understand the power of propaganda better than anyone and they don't want western propaganda disrupting their society?

What precisely does that entail? I could say that and then prevent you from hearing anything from the outside world, just keep you locked in a cellar. It's for your own good, I understand how the propaganda might affect your delicate mind.

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#285

Post by FooBarWidget »

bardan wrote: post #281
FooBarWidget wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think that it's impossible for Chinese (or other countries in general) to have a different attitude towards government then you should watch some videos by Kishore Mahbubani, ex-UN Security Council head, ex-Singapore diplomat. For example https://youtu.be/zBpmm5hdbFQ Furthermore, the characterization of China being "totalitarian" is wrong because China is in no way comparable to the likes of North Korea or Sau…

This is what totalitarian governments always claim. "We are the deterministic result of the people organizing themselves", generally a single ethnic group. Conveniently this also means an attack on the party is an attack on the ethnic group. The CCP was formed in the chaos of the early 20th century, buoyed by the Soviets, and maintained its power in part by astonishing acts of brutality on the Chinese people. If the…

What? An attack on the party is not seen as an attack on Han man. You can't just conveniently draw false comparisons between western paradigms and China. You keep saying unsubstantiated stereotypes while I keep posting sources.

Han supremacism — while it exists — is largely not a thing and certainly not state policy. State policy is that minorities receive extra benefits that Han do not enjoy, and that the provincial government heads of minority provinces must be of those ethnicities.

Please go to China and tell a Chaoxianzu he's not Chinese. He'll tell you to fuck off.

Please go to China and tell people that the KMT should have won the civil war and see how people react.

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#286

Post by bardan »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #282
bardan wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And I'm trying to say that "In the PRC people are jailed for complaining too much, or complaining about the wrong thing" is a mischaracterization at best, a complete falsehood at worst. I've found this to be the case after research. I had an apologist describe it to be once like "if you want to suggest improvements in local government, or you want to make a request, as long as you do it respectfully, then there is…

You're just going in circles. Chinese people don't believe she has ever been in danger, and they believe Zhang will be dealt with. Let's see who's right in a few years from now. Maybe she'll be vacationing in Europe like Jack Ma is today while Zhang received a punishment.

Yeah, with her family safe and sound under the watchful eye of the CCP. But hey, what's a little "disappearance" between friends, or family.

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#287

Post by theaussiestew »

clove wrote: post #192
FooBarWidget wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't aiming to be harmful. But I've seen plenty of people paint everybody who have a non-mainstream opinion on China, as paid undercover propagandists.

You don't have a non-mainstream opinion on China; you hold every Chinese (domestic) mainstream opinion and parrot them on this Western forum. One only needs to look at your post history to see that all you do here is post CCP propaganda. Who would do that but a paid shill? HN is one of the few places online that both allows free speech and isn't riddled with bots/spammers/shills. I'd like to keep it that way, meaning…

Actually he’s convinced me. He does have a non-mainstream opinion on China. The boots on the ground, lived reality and perspective of Chinese domestic experience is literally a non-mainstream opinion on China.

You’re being extremely rude here, accusing people of being shills and telling them to literally “fuck off”. If anything goes against the HN ethos and rules, it’s terrible behaviour and bad faith behaviour like that, not a veteran Hacker News member with an account that’s twice as old as yours arguing a refreshingly non-mainstream perspective.

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#289

Post by arvigeus »

FooBarWidget wrote: post #135
arvigeus wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cyrus was recently exposed as paid by CGTN. Dumbshill recently posted a clip of an old video of laowhy86, “exposing” him as a racist… which turned out to be taken extremely out of context and edited to be purposely misleading.

You should check his rebuttal to the "exposure" then. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb-6fgN3MZA Let people watch both and decide for themselves who to trust.

Hard to form an informative opinion when he released that AFTER he got exposed. It's possible that video is just him trying to save his skin. Just saying.

Re: What Peng Shuai reveals about one-party rule

#290

Post by [deleted] »

igorkraw wrote: post #93
adriand wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps women are also better at speaking truth to power.

I can't help but wonder this myself, although I don't think it is safe/easy to say this with confidence - but if you look at Jane Jacobs, Hannah Arendt, Simone Weil, Rosa Luxemburg, Chelsea Manning and others, I sometimes think about whether being in the historically weaker societal role sharpens your insight and moral cohones. I don't believe there's enough evidence to say it's there, but I would buy a story that we…

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