Live data from Hacker News

As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

blog.archive.org

221–230 of 263 posts

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the Texas legislator's proposed list of banned books, I fail to see why books such as "Bioethics Beyond the Headlines" or "V for Vendetta" should be banned. Indeed, it does concern me that much of the novels are fictional works portraying the LGBT experience. I can't imagine how alienating it must be to students of that group. As an aside, I find it amusing that Shakespeare is never banned on the grounds of sexu…

To be clear, we’re talking about books that have graphic images of sex. They wouldn’t be appropriate even if they involved straight sex. Don’t use LGBT acceptance to promote sexualization of minors.

I fail to see the "graphic sex" in the aforementioned works, or others listed like "The Gale Encyclopedia of Medicine." I'll take your word that there are books on the list with "graphic sex," but it's insulting to assume children cannot comprehend such topics.

Not long ago, I was 13. At that age, I read books like Slaughterhouse Five, Cat's Cradle, and A Clockwork Orange. The very fact I now have to type that I knew that sex was a natural part of life perhaps speaks to the deterioration of our educational standards. Regardless, even I understood then that the sexual perversion of those works weren't their raison d'étre. I'm grateful I had an English teacher who guided me in that respect. Likewise, I earnestly hope others have similar instructors, who don't define a work by its depictions of acts of reality, however sordid they may be.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#222
post #135
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am not a fan of Ayn Rand's philosophy I've been thinking about this lately, and I'm not sure where I stand. I'm against book burning, but I feel like there are also problems with unchecked dissemination of ideas. I think this is flawed logic in a few ways, but I'll put it down anyway: 1. Is there a difference between an undiscerning student (i.e. young, impressionable, hasn't been taught critical thinking, doesn'…

Having personally read some of Rand’s fiction as a teen (from my high school library no less!) I think you’d be hard pressed to find a reason to “ban” them. The narrative in Anthem, for example, is so hilariously over the top I’m not sure what the argument would be. It’s a Pol Pot “Year Zero” style civilization, and the randian superman subverts the established collectivist order by single handedly reinventing the li…

All I remembered of Atlas Shrugged when I read it in high school was the sex, tbh. Had someone said subscribing to Libertarianism would get me screwed the way Rearden screwed Dagny I’d have signed up then and there.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Parents and the community should have the final say ...not (potentially activist) teachers and school boards. Aren't school boards usually elected by the community? Also, generally, a lot of public school teaching is about encouraging a newer generation to think for themselves, and potentially be exposed to ideas that are not constrained by the parents and the community. Parents who want to micromanage what ideas t…

Let's get real for a second and be honest about the very real problem we are discussing: Political activist teachers are pushing their agendas onto students. This has been quietly happening for some time, but has become harder for the teachers to hide as children started completing more instruction and schoolwork in the home. These are not isolated incidents and the examples of this happening are everywhere in the US…

I haven’t seen this or heard this. Could you link a few isolated examples of these “not isolated incidents” of teachers “radicalizing” students?

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#224

k-12 students are not adults. We ban and censor all sorts of things for the the underage crowd, look up CIPA. There are borderline pedophilia books available at school libraries. I've also seen several examples of incredibly racist CRT books in classrooms. I don't think young kids should have unfettered access to this stuff. They're not able to process it correctly. If communities are saying they do not want this is…

Or we could teach critical thinking skills in schools.

They’re going to hit college, or the Internet, or cable news, and find all kinds of totally bonkers ideas. Wouldn’t it make sense to prepare them to deal with dubious information?

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the Texas legislator's proposed list of banned books, I fail to see why books such as "Bioethics Beyond the Headlines" or "V for Vendetta" should be banned. Indeed, it does concern me that much of the novels are fictional works portraying the LGBT experience. I can't imagine how alienating it must be to students of that group. As an aside, I find it amusing that Shakespeare is never banned on the grounds of sexu…

|Perhaps people don't pay attention in English class?| Funny enough, I always assumed this same thing of the people who were trying to get Mark Twain books banned for the misuse of language =) People who don't read books are always the ones who are the most afraid of the ideas contained within them, I suppose.

Mark Twain shall definitely be banned. We don't need satire in school. And no books with racism. We have enough of the later.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The books being on the school library or on classroom shelves connotes that the educational custodians of our children, who have literal and legal responsibility for their safety and well being on multiple levels, have approved them. Not so much to promote every idea they contain, but at least that they express things in a way that is psychologically appropriate for kids at their level of development. What kinds of i…

We want the kids to use their freedom and free will, and to think for themselves - even or especially when it challenges the adults - and to learn how to do that. It's an essential skill to a democracy (and a free market), and to teach them freedom for all by giving them freedom, instead of teaching them that people should be sheparded. There are limits to what we want middle schoolers exposed to, but I think my appr…

> We want the kids to use their freedom and free will, and to think for themselves - even or especially when it challenges the adults - and to learn how to do that.

No, history has shown that thinking is dangerous. We shall avoid that. Thanks to Netflix and Spotify the mind of the child can be occupied 24h a day. The last thing a child shall do is to challenge the establishment.

> It's an essential skill to a democracy (and a free market), and to teach them freedom for all by giving them freedom, instead of teaching them that people should be sheparded.

And who will collect our data then ? Who will fight the wars to give to reach people more ?

> There are limits to what we want middle schoolers exposed to, but I think my approach is different than what you describe.

There are no limits. Every limit can be achieved and left behind. The purpose of educational system is to destroy the mind of the child so he accepts what is given to him and never asks questions. And, when he asks questions only stupid questions are allowed. No "why"s and no critique.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The books being on the school library or on classroom shelves connotes that the educational custodians of our children, who have literal and legal responsibility for their safety and well being on multiple levels, have approved them. Not so much to promote every idea they contain, but at least that they express things in a way that is psychologically appropriate for kids at their level of development. What kinds of i…

> but at least that they express things in a way that is psychologically appropriate for kids at their level of development Frankly, we have little real idea what's psychologically appropriate for kids. Consider that over 65% of papers in psychology fail replication. I would be very skeptical of anyone claiming they know what's psychologically good for anyone.

> Frankly, we have little real idea what's psychologically appropriate for kids.

You must be joking. Look at parental guidance for movies and games for example. Violence is good and appropriate. Just show no blood. ( Harry Potter). Sex is not good except when in Disney movies and preferably between a prince and a princess. Scenes of normal life are borring just like story costruction. Children must learn that they have to reach the goals as fast as possible, no matter what means are employed. And did i mention violence ? Maybe they don't have it at home but it must be introduced somehow in their lifes. They also need to speak more hysterical. TV and politics have shown that if you speak in normal tone noone will listen to you.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#228
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never run up against problems caused by people reading too widely. I have frequently seen problems caused by people who didn't read enough.

I know what you mean by this but when I hear it leads me to be believe that written language is inefficient since a large number of people find reading, even subjects they’re somewhat interested in, boring.

Well, not all writers are able to clearly express their ideas. And going into a bookstore is an exercise in masochism, most of the books are so low quality that it is a shame for the trees that they were sacrificed for such garbage.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#229

k-12 students are not adults. We ban and censor all sorts of things for the the underage crowd, look up CIPA. There are borderline pedophilia books available at school libraries. I've also seen several examples of incredibly racist CRT books in classrooms. I don't think young kids should have unfettered access to this stuff. They're not able to process it correctly. If communities are saying they do not want this is…

Should religious texts which contain such things or related topics be removed as well?

Well, the bible has a lot of stories which shall not be teach to children.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#230
post #36
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know most libraries (school libraries too probably?) are open to book requests. Unless you're asking for something like mein kampf, I don't think the librarians will look at you weirdly when asking for _any_ book whatsoever.

I would assume that if someone asked a librarian for Mein Kampf, the assumption is that the student is interested in history. Similar, a student reading the Communist Manifesto is most likely not a revolutionary that want to draw inspiration for an violent insurrection, but rather a philosophy/history student that is interested to read the original text. Naturally context matter. If the student is wearing a beret and…

I strongly dissagree, except maybe in the case you believe in reincarnation or that your life has no meaning anymore. If the student is wearing a beret and holding a AK4 the best thing to do is giving him the book.
Post reply on HN