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As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

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Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#121

Post by erichocean »

js2 wrote: post #8
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #5

Nobody’s calling for banning books. They are calling for not using certain books in curriculum, which is very different and not allowing certain books is necessary for any school system. I wouldn’t want my kid to write “A kid’s version of Algebra” and then have it used in schools. I wouldn’t want a flat-earther to have his Science book in schools. Who wants Trump’s guide to Civics? That’s super different than “bannin…

No, they are literally calling for banning books from school libraries. Books that are not used as part of the curriculum. https://www.alternet.org/2021/11/henry-mcmaster/ They are also literally calling for burning books: > Two board members, Courtland representative Rabih Abuismail and Livingston representative Kirk Twigg, said they would like to see the removed books burned. > “I think we should throw those books…

Burning "porn"? Literally (heh), that's what the Nazis did.

Yikes.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#123

Post by erichocean »

Are "graphic novels" really expected to be given the same treatment as actual books? It's not like school libraries typically have movies for kids to check out and watch at home.

If they did have movies, it's likely that anything "R" rated would be "banned" by educators—and I doubt anyone here would care.

The graphic novels being "banned" can't be posted to Instagram or Facebook or network TV because: pornographic…but we're supposed to pretend it's a "book" that's being banned?

Seems disingenuous to call this "banning books."

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#124

Post by boplicity »

lr4444lr wrote: post #97
quadrifoliate wrote: post #9

A lot of the other comments on here are saying that this is banning books from curricula [1]. But I would...like to see the sources for this assertion? All of the stories I have seen [1][2] say that the books are banned from the school library system . As far as I am aware, school libraries usually contain a wide range of books, not just whatever is required for the curriculum. So banning a book from a school library…

The books being on the school library or on classroom shelves connotes that the educational custodians of our children, who have literal and legal responsibility for their safety and well being on multiple levels, have approved them. Not so much to promote every idea they contain, but at least that they express things in a way that is psychologically appropriate for kids at their level of development. What kinds of i…

Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be where people are drawing the line lately, especially in "conservative" areas.

It's hard to argue there's anything but racism (or xenophobia) going on when they ban a book such as A Big Mooncake for Little Star.[0]

[0] https://twitter.com/pacylin/status/1440318317806317569

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#125

Post by kvathupo »

lr4444lr wrote: post #97
quadrifoliate wrote: post #9

A lot of the other comments on here are saying that this is banning books from curricula [1]. But I would...like to see the sources for this assertion? All of the stories I have seen [1][2] say that the books are banned from the school library system . As far as I am aware, school libraries usually contain a wide range of books, not just whatever is required for the curriculum. So banning a book from a school library…

The books being on the school library or on classroom shelves connotes that the educational custodians of our children, who have literal and legal responsibility for their safety and well being on multiple levels, have approved them. Not so much to promote every idea they contain, but at least that they express things in a way that is psychologically appropriate for kids at their level of development. What kinds of i…

From the Texas legislator's proposed list of banned books, I fail to see why books such as "Bioethics Beyond the Headlines" or "V for Vendetta" should be banned. Indeed, it does concern me that much of the novels are fictional works portraying the LGBT experience. I can't imagine how alienating it must be to students of that group.

As an aside, I find it amusing that Shakespeare is never banned on the grounds of sexual content. Perhaps people don't pay attention in English class?

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#126

Post by Cpoll »

quadrifoliate wrote: post #9

A lot of the other comments on here are saying that this is banning books from curricula [1]. But I would...like to see the sources for this assertion? All of the stories I have seen [1][2] say that the books are banned from the school library system . As far as I am aware, school libraries usually contain a wide range of books, not just whatever is required for the curriculum. So banning a book from a school library…

> I am not a fan of Ayn Rand's philosophy

I've been thinking about this lately, and I'm not sure where I stand. I'm against book burning, but I feel like there are also problems with unchecked dissemination of ideas.

I think this is flawed logic in a few ways, but I'll put it down anyway:

1. Is there a difference between an undiscerning student (i.e. young, impressionable, hasn't been taught critical thinking, doesn't have sufficient experience to evaluate the validity of what they're learning) reading Ayn Rand on their own and being taught Ayn Rand by a teacher?

2. Would you consider it acceptable to teach Rand's novels non-critically as part of the curriculum (heck, why not, there are more than a few Senators that cite her books as inspiration).

The problem I run up against is how do you "objectively" decide which books to restrict. As you said, "school libraries curated by legislators with an agenda seem like a Really Bad Idea," but everyone has some sort of agenda. Everyone thinks it's obvious what should and shouldn't be taught in school, but of course it's not the same "obvious" for everyone.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#127

Post by ModernMech »

WkndTriathlete wrote: post #122

I'll admit that the one that puzzled me was the school district that banned "Catch-22".

This is likely why: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catch-22#Anti-capitalism

I mean, really there's a lot in there that the people banning these books would probably find offensive. Questioning the MIC, questioning God, questioning capitalism...

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#128

Post by SamoyedFurFluff »

Cpoll wrote: post #126
quadrifoliate wrote: post #9

A lot of the other comments on here are saying that this is banning books from curricula [1]. But I would...like to see the sources for this assertion? All of the stories I have seen [1][2] say that the books are banned from the school library system . As far as I am aware, school libraries usually contain a wide range of books, not just whatever is required for the curriculum. So banning a book from a school library…

> I am not a fan of Ayn Rand's philosophy I've been thinking about this lately, and I'm not sure where I stand. I'm against book burning, but I feel like there are also problems with unchecked dissemination of ideas. I think this is flawed logic in a few ways, but I'll put it down anyway: 1. Is there a difference between an undiscerning student (i.e. young, impressionable, hasn't been taught critical thinking, doesn'…

Frankly? The best is when a child can read Ayn Rand and then be in a safe enough environment where they can discuss the ideas with adults who can greatly contextualize the discussion around that piece of literature.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#129

Post by UnpossibleJim »

kvathupo wrote: post #125
lr4444lr wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The books being on the school library or on classroom shelves connotes that the educational custodians of our children, who have literal and legal responsibility for their safety and well being on multiple levels, have approved them. Not so much to promote every idea they contain, but at least that they express things in a way that is psychologically appropriate for kids at their level of development. What kinds of i…

From the Texas legislator's proposed list of banned books, I fail to see why books such as "Bioethics Beyond the Headlines" or "V for Vendetta" should be banned. Indeed, it does concern me that much of the novels are fictional works portraying the LGBT experience. I can't imagine how alienating it must be to students of that group. As an aside, I find it amusing that Shakespeare is never banned on the grounds of sexu…

|Perhaps people don't pay attention in English class?|

Funny enough, I always assumed this same thing of the people who were trying to get Mark Twain books banned for the misuse of language =)

People who don't read books are always the ones who are the most afraid of the ideas contained within them, I suppose.

Re: As calls to ban books intensify, digital librarians offer perspective

#130

Post by Animats »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #18
shagie wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody’s calling for banning books. They are calling for not using certain books in curriculum, which is very different and not allowing certain books is necessary for any school system. From the other day on NPR: https://www.npr.org/2021/11/11/1054798508/when-schools-ban-b... > Texas Gov. Greg Abbott joined Krause's efforts this week, sending his own letter to the Texas Education Agency asking it and other agencie…

Well then, again, would you want a flat-earther science manual in the school library? Schools exercising discretion is not 1940s Germany book bans and the two are not comparable.

A book from the Flat Earth Society's reading list would be worth having around.[1] Kids should have an opportunity to see the stupid ideas of the past. It yields perspective.

The problem is not reading enough books. Kids who only read a few take them too seriously. After you've read everything from Abbie Hoffman's Steal This Book to Johnathan Edward's "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God", you get some perspective.

But with so much online content available, it's hard to get anyone to read in bulk today.

[1] https://theflatearthsociety.org/home/index.php/flat-earth-li...

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