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The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

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Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#261

Post by InvertedRhodium »

FireBeyond wrote: post #213
tga wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Philips Hue lights are sadly not on the same seriousness level as the Lutron hardware. After a time away, I tried to turn on lights with my phone -- only to be greeted by a message like "There is a mandatory update available for your bridge. You can use your system again after 10 minutes". I found not being able to turn on the lights for 10 minutes because they were installing unprompted updates completely unacceptab…

One of the challenges is this - on one hand, we have the "IoT is notoriously insecure and manufacturers have or should have liability" argument, which is valid, and when manufacturers do actually release security updates, that should be lauded. And then on the other we have the usability pain like this. I'd rather pay a few dollars more for more storage or an A/B firmware system so the upgrade can run async and minim…

Just don't use wifi. When the only firmware you need to update is in the MQTT bridge, the whole problem becomes a non-issue.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#262

Post by criddell »

quickthrowman wrote: post #99
gwbas1c wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing that I like about the Lutron system is that you can try it, with just a single switch or lamp module. Then, if you like it, you can buy more. I previously used a different brand to control my aquarium lights and HATED it. When the app randomly made me enter my password to turn the lights on, I 1-starred it with a very frank, "my old-fashioned light switch doesn't randomly ask me to enter my password" in the…

> One complaint that I have about the Lutron system is that they don't offer relay-based modules. Yes they do, here is the cutsheet: https://www.lutron.com/TechnicalDocumentLibrary/369-549b_Eng... This one can switch 5A using a Pico input device. Just to be clear, every commercial lighting controls line has relay modules, it’s necessary for occupancy sensing.

Do you know if they have a simple smart outlet? I want to use one with my Christmas tree lights because getting to the switch is difficult. I looked on Amazon and didn't see anything so I ended up ordering a cheap Refoss device that I have very low expectations for.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#263

Post by toss1 »

h2odragon wrote: post #2

In that same time period, my "plant light" timer, a $15 mechanical item of a design unmodified since the 1970s, has worked flawlessly, requiring attention only when the clocks change or my schedule does. It has not informed Google, Amazon, or anyone else about its job or anything else in my home. It has generated no royalties nor invoked any support or ongoing maintenance costs. It has never needed a software upgrade…

Yup.

I've got both mechanical timers and digital timers. While the digital ones have more programming flexibility (e.g., different hours on different days), I've also got to relearn the button sequences for checking & setting them up every time I use them.

So, what comes out first? The mechanical ones, just set the time, put the pins in the on/off times I want, and plug it in. I only bother with the digital ones if I need to use more than the couple of mechanical ones on hand.

What will I buy next if I need more? Some of these same mechanical ones...

Short, simple, and robust tech stacks really are better than tall, messy and brittle.

If someone could give me a tall, clean, and reliable stack with a clean UI, I'd be all over it, AND happy to pay more. But the trend these days is all about programmer convenience and "productivity". Great, except when the result is mountains of digital crap that results in articles like that one.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#264

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o »

rendall wrote: post #206
Filligree wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What hardware do you use? And how were you able to get hold of something that doesn't talk to the cloud? There's nothing like that in the shops here.

check out https://www.home-assistant.io/ Open source. You can be as fiddly or stable as you have tolerance for.

Any tips for those who want a simple stable setup?

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#265

Post by Fuzzwah »

msla wrote: post #192
londons_explore wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whats needed is a much stronger guarantee. For example, "If this device ever , even once, shows an error message or misbehaves, then we'll give you a full refund, plus $100". If there was some logo and brand associated with that guarantee, consumers would prefer it, just like today some only buy organic or freetrade. Then manufacturers would want the extra sales generated by that logo/brand, and have a massive financ…

> "If this device ever, even once, shows an error message or misbehaves, then we'll give you a full refund, plus $100". Your device stopped working because the server it syncs with is gone because the company that owned the server is gone. Who gives you your money now?

I think that the point is that if a company puts forward such a guarantee they wouldn't release products that relied on anything external.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#266

Post by rootusrootus »

I have a fair amount of automation, an I've had a pretty good experience. Yes, a couple things have failed over the years. But I have one steadfast rule -- the automation must fall back to normal operation. Short of a physical failure in the switch, it should always be a switch, even every bit of automation around it goes haywire. Then I'm only annoyed that the conveniences are unavailable, but I haven't forgotten how to use a light switch.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#267

Post by enobrev »

pkulak wrote: post #205
Filligree wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What hardware do you use? And how were you able to get hold of something that doesn't talk to the cloud? There's nothing like that in the shops here.

Most of my stuff is ZWave which is 100% local (big Zooz fan, and I hear that Inovelli is just as good). I have a bunch of Lutron switches too, and a couple Hue bulbs. Both of those will technically phone home, but you can cut off their WAN access and they still work just fine. I control everything with an old Mac Mini running Home Assistant. The trick is, before you buy anything, look it up on Home Assistant. If its…

I have a similar experience with ZWave, and definitely recommend Inovelli (I'm also a Zooz fan).

I had everything on HA, but at the time they were changing _everything_ way too quickly for me. After the last time I'd lost my entire Zwave network setup, I figured it was a great time to try something now.

So, now it's a single ~1k line javascript file that handles all my automation, built atop zwave2mqtt (hoping to move to zwavejs soon - maybe over the holiday). It's simple, solid, and very easy to maintain.

I could use a UI, and occasionally dream of building one, but honestly I generally forget the place is automated. It all just sorta works.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#268

Post by throaway46546 »

beervirus wrote: post #208
HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume there was some reason you didn't just remove the beeper? Or put a switch inline with it so you could turn it off?

Oven timers aren’t much use if they can’t beep. And the inline switch is probably more trouble than what they came up with.

Just set an alarm on your phone.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#269

Post by recursive »

driverdan wrote: post #78
yholio wrote: post #23

I think any software engineer with some industry experience will absolutely NOT install a device in his home that receives automatic updates over the internet and is critical for performing some task or using some basic functionality of the house; especially one that has a well known, highly stable and ergonomic traditional mode of interaction - controlling the lights and water, opening the windows and shades etc. We…

> I think any software engineer with some industry experience will absolutely NOT install a device in his home that receives automatic updates Have you ever talked to another SE? The majority I know don't even care about privacy and have all kinds of invasive auto update devices in their homes (Alexa, Nest, Ring, etc).

I don't care about privacy that much. But that's also unrelated to the reason I will never have a light switch that's capable of having software updates.

The functionality I want from a light switch is simple enough that it should be able to be built into a finished product. More complexity means more failure modes.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#270

Post by _dain_ »

xvector wrote: post #75
yholio wrote: post #23

I think any software engineer with some industry experience will absolutely NOT install a device in his home that receives automatic updates over the internet and is critical for performing some task or using some basic functionality of the house; especially one that has a well known, highly stable and ergonomic traditional mode of interaction - controlling the lights and water, opening the windows and shades etc. We…

Cybersecurity engineer here, have worked for FAANG, my entire home is automated to the teeth - every single little thing - and I'm not concerned about privacy or security because I've chosen my products and network firewall rules carefully.

>I'm not concerned about privacy or security because I've chosen my products and network firewall rules carefully.

it sounds like you very much are concerned about privacy and security

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