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The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

staceyoniot.com

191–200 of 375 posts

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#191
post #36
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was providing a smart home alternative to your example of having to use an app to turn something on and off. I don't think you're going to find a smart switch, Z-wave or not, for £1.99

Sure. I'm not opposed to people spending large amounts of money on smart devices, I just don't choose to do it myself because in all honesty I don't understand what the point is.

Neither do I.

At my first job, I worked for a company that built (among other things) X-10 powerline-control interfaces that would let your PC do the same thing: switch on lights/fans, etc.

As far as I could tell, the only people buying that stuff were hobbyists with a lot of disposable income. Part of my duties was customer support and I can't recall a single instance of anyone doing it for any reason that didn't boil down to "it's cool."

Not making judgements, but I really don't see what the big deal is with getting up to turn on a light, and I live in a pretty big house.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got the same old-fashioned mechanical timer. I actually attached it to one of those "box fan filters" that people talk about here from time to time. (So I can filter on a schedule) It works perfectly, and I've never had any issues with it. I'm thoroughly convinced that if I tried to replace it with a "smart" device I'd have no shortage of issues. I like your thinking regarding the lack of reliability with these…

Whats needed is a much stronger guarantee. For example, "If this device ever , even once, shows an error message or misbehaves, then we'll give you a full refund, plus $100". If there was some logo and brand associated with that guarantee, consumers would prefer it, just like today some only buy organic or freetrade. Then manufacturers would want the extra sales generated by that logo/brand, and have a massive financ…

> "If this device ever, even once, shows an error message or misbehaves, then we'll give you a full refund, plus $100".

Your device stopped working because the server it syncs with is gone because the company that owned the server is gone.

Who gives you your money now?

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#193
A few people have mentioned smart bulbs. I have some data that might be useful when choosing smart bulbs if dimming ability is important to you.

I measured a few in a dark room with the bulb in a desk lamp aimed straight down at a lux meter on the desk. The bulb was 41 cm from the meter.

For each bulb I measured at 1%, 2%, 3%, 4%, 5%, 10%, 15%, 20%, 25%, 50%, 75% and 100% brightness.

The bulbs I had were a TP-Link white bulb (TPL), a Merkury Innovations white bulb (MIW), a Hue white bulb (HW), a Merkury Innovations color bulb set to white (MIC), and a Hue color bulb which I tested set to cold white (HCW), daylight white (HDW), white (HPW), soft white (HSW), and warm white (HWM).

         TPL   MIW    HW   MIC   HCW  HDW  HPW   HSW  HWW
  1%,     14,  135,   64,  135,   10,   7,  10,    5,   3
  2%,     14,  149,   64,  162,   10,   7,  10,    6,   3
  3%,     26,  162,   65,  170,   11,   8,  11,    6,   4
  4%,     43,  180,   65,  182,   11,   8,  11,    7,   4
  5%,     58,  190,   66,  200,   13,   9,  13,    7,   5
  10%,   128,  246,   77,  255,   20,  15,  20,   12,   8
  15%,   196,  303,   91,  322,   34,  25,  34,   21,  13
  20%,   261,  364,  112,  388,   54,  40,  54,   34,  21
  25%,   325,  428,  143,  451,   74,  67,  74,   46,  29
  50%,   630,  725,  400,  776,  282, 218, 282,  184, 118
  75%,   909, 1008,  820, 1099,  650, 483, 650,  410, 263
  100%, 1160, 1283, 1382, 1408, 1146, 850, 1146, 725, 463
For comparison, I also measured some non-smart bulbs. a Great Value 100W equivalent LED measured 2540, a GV 60W equivalent was 1255, and a GV 40W equivalent was 881. Two Cree 60W equivalents were 1195 and 1085. Finally, some actual incandescent bulbs: 100W 2300, 40W 790, 25W 294.

For the smart bulbs the TP-Link and the MI bulbs where the most linear. The MI bulbs fit a linear function with R^2 of 0.9997 or better, but that function would be 130 at 0 so they aren't very good if you want really low light (like a nightlight for when you get up to in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom).

The TP-Link is almost as linear (R^2 = 0.9977) and its function would be 7 at 0, so it is great for nightlight use.

The Hue bulbs are quite non-linear. The color ones get closer to 0 than the TP-Link so make great nightlights. The white one doesn't get close to 0 so is disappointing as a low light bulb.

The curve for the Hue lights fits a quadratic polynomial well. For example the Hue color set to plain white matches 1168.3 b^2 -31.431 b + 10.89 (where b is the brightness from 0 to 1) with R^2 = 0.9999. Same for that bulb on the other white settings I tested. For example set to warm white it matched 464.82 b^2 - 3.2729 b + 3.1916 with R^2 = 1.

This raises a question. I believe human perception of brightness is not linear. Is it actually better from a perception point of view to have a dimming curve that is linear like the TP-Link bulb, or a quadratic curve like the Hue bulb?

When considering smart bulbs, check to see what power-on settings they have. The Hue bulbs can be set to power on off, power on to whatever state they were in when they lost power, or power on to any specific color and brightness.

The MI bulbs power on at full brightness. This can be annoying if you have one in the room in which you sleep and you get a short power loss overnight that normally would not wake you.

If you don't mind that, and not being able to get anywhere near as dim is the others, they can be a good deal. They are 3 for $15.88 at Walmart for white. A Hue bulb would call $15.88 a down payment. (MI color is 2 for $15.88 or 4 for $19.88).

I don't remember what the TP-Link does on power on.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#194
post #76
post #23

I think any software engineer with some industry experience will absolutely NOT install a device in his home that receives automatic updates over the internet and is critical for performing some task or using some basic functionality of the house; especially one that has a well known, highly stable and ergonomic traditional mode of interaction - controlling the lights and water, opening the windows and shades etc. We…

Plenty of software engineers know how to put devices on their home network without granting them access to the internet. I have some wi-fi bulbs that I do this for, and I can control them over the network internally.

The internet is only half the problem. The few iot devices I have all hang out on a separate vlan.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#195
post #9

I did my whole house in Lutron’s smart switches (close to 50 of them), and I think it’s good? It’s been about 2 years now and I really haven’t had any issues. The switches aren’t Wi-Fi connected, because Wi-Fi would be an awful choice for 50 devices that you only communicate with a few times a day. They use their own wireless frequency and communicate in a really simple/reliable way to the bridge, which is wired to m…

Lutron Caseta is the only 100% reliable smart home system I have encountered. It just does not go offline, ever. The cloud functionality is completely optional and additional. Your home internet AND WiFi can burst into flames and your lights will still work.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#196
post #23

I think any software engineer with some industry experience will absolutely NOT install a device in his home that receives automatic updates over the internet and is critical for performing some task or using some basic functionality of the house; especially one that has a well known, highly stable and ergonomic traditional mode of interaction - controlling the lights and water, opening the windows and shades etc. We…

> controlling the lights and water, opening the windows and shades etc.

Pretty much all smart devices I own work just like their dumb counterparts if you need them to: Switches, bulbs, etc. I think this fear is overblown.

There's another comment about Hue lights not coming on for 10 minutes because of a bridge update. This makes no sense to me. If you disconnect the actual power to the bulb (via a switch) and then restore the power, they'll turn on at full brightness.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#197
post #172

Quick story: On the day we were closing on our 1920s house here in Massachusetts, we noticed that the oven wouldn't turn on. Then we noticed that it was shut off at the breaker. We asked the owner why, and he said "oh, the mainboard in the oven (a Thermidor) has some issue where it beeps incessantly in the middle of the night and wakes us all up – but not a big deal: you can just turn it off and on at the breaker and…

I assume there was some reason you didn't just remove the beeper? Or put a switch inline with it so you could turn it off?

I did that on a base model APC UPS that would beep when the power was interrupted, even briefly. I didn't care to know, I just wanted it to work quietly so I de-soldered the beeper, problem solved.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#198
There's a bigger message beyond IoT: every new bit of technology you bring into you life requires some amount of upkeep. The same thing is true in your job: new code, new services, etc. all require upkeep, so be prepared for that, and use it when deciding if you really need something.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#199
post #9

I did my whole house in Lutron’s smart switches (close to 50 of them), and I think it’s good? It’s been about 2 years now and I really haven’t had any issues. The switches aren’t Wi-Fi connected, because Wi-Fi would be an awful choice for 50 devices that you only communicate with a few times a day. They use their own wireless frequency and communicate in a really simple/reliable way to the bridge, which is wired to m…

Similiar here - we had some older Zigbee / Z-Wave switches that were constantly breaking. Switched everything to Lutron, rock solid since then. The Pico remotes are incredible - we have some mounted in switchplates in places where we wanted 3-way switches, but didn't want to tear apart our walls running wires. Zero issues.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#200

In that same time period, my "plant light" timer, a $15 mechanical item of a design unmodified since the 1970s, has worked flawlessly, requiring attention only when the clocks change or my schedule does. It has not informed Google, Amazon, or anyone else about its job or anything else in my home. It has generated no royalties nor invoked any support or ongoing maintenance costs. It has never needed a software upgrade…

I love my smart home stuff. My lights turn on in the morning, change color temperature at sunset, and turn off at night. Thermostats set to the right temperature/mode at night and in the morning depending on the forecast for the day. My garden is watered, but not if it's going to rain. When I turn on my TV, the lights turn off and the blinds close. Everything shuts down and locks when the family leaves, resumes when we come back.

But what's important is that it's all rock solid and 100% reliable, because none of it leaves my house. I don't have any "cloud" crap. Everything exists on my local network only. Well, that's not totally true. I have a Nest thermostat. It's the only device that ever gives me trouble, and it took a whole day to get automated. Some day I'll replace it.

I'd argue that your plant timer is reliable not because it's old and not networked, but because it doesn't have dependencies on servers thousands of miles away and isn't reliant on the continuing goodwill, solvency and work ethic of the company that sold it to you.

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