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The Handwavy Technobabble Nothingburger of Crypto

stephendiehl.com

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Re: The Handwavy Technobabble Nothingburger of Crypto

#251

Post by floatboth »

CTDOCodebases wrote: post #161
CyanBird wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One IMO realistic use-case is providing a wealth preservation Any other fiat currency already provides this such as usd, euro, Israeli currency etc and they are at least currently far easier to aquire and done have any gas feeds other than consumption tax if any On Lebanon where electricity is unreliable seems like a particularly bad idea to use any sort of Crypto, let alone the user friction as a consequence of ne…

True but opening foreign bank accounts is difficult and like western countries physical cash can be legally seized by authorities even if it was acquired legally.

Cryptocurrencies can also be legally seized. Anything can be.

Re: The Handwavy Technobabble Nothingburger of Crypto

#252

Post by optimalsolver »

3np wrote: post #140
can16358p wrote: post #121

Not being pegged to a centralized, state-controlled currency is a dealbreaker for me. It's still in infancy and it's true that 99% of the projects are get-rich-quick schemes with no intrinsic value. Though, I think the author lives in a country with a trustworthy government because that's not the case for many people including me. In the last two days my country's currency has shaken much more than crypto and I don't…

> Not being pegged to a centralized, state-controlled currency is a dealbreaker for me Pretty sure you mean the opposite

He probably did, but there's wisdom in his typo.

Re: The Handwavy Technobabble Nothingburger of Crypto

#253

Post by horsawlarway »

CTDOCodebases wrote: post #148
horsawlarway wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that ledger isn't accurate. It's just distributed and difficult to change. I technically am the owner of (quite a few) bitcoin that were being processed by MtGox when they imploded. The wallet they were in at the time was emptied and no longer exists. I still receive the relevant court documents as the case continues still. As far as the ledger is concerned - they are no longer mine. --- So question to you: How d…

“I don't trust the ledger to accurately reflect ownership (it can only represent possession, not true ownership).” Possession is ownership on the Bitcoin network. Not ownership in the sense of it is written down in some legal document somewhere but ownership in the sense that you have the power to perform a transaction with what you say you own. You were trusting a central party all along. If you didn’t you wouldn’t…

But the alternative here is that you have to place all your trust in an unknown and untrusted 3rd party to ever actually make an exchange.

Even the silk-road used an escrow service that required that the seller trust the buyer, and both parties trust the silk-road. (a buyer places coins in escrow with the silk-road, the silk-road confirms it has the coins to the seller, the seller ships the product, the buyer unlocks the coins escrow upon receipt)

So the whole things boils down to "trust" and it turns out that the ledger can't actually provide any trust.

Re: The Handwavy Technobabble Nothingburger of Crypto

#254

Post by sharemywin »

So, let's all use facebook ... no that wouldn't work they sell off our data...google...apple...the government(bailouts anyone)...

as hard as I try I can't seem time find a central authority that's earn my trust..

do I use them now sure.

and if all I need it is for a couple of crypto coins to hold value long enough to buy crap until my next pay check then I could see it being stable enough for that.

file coin seems like a pretty cool protocol.

prediction markets seem like a cool way to keep truth manageable.

and if 10-40 people run a publicly verifiable block chain and they have a stake if it works then I don't see how small groups or towns couldn't run a local blockchain and it's compatible with a bunch of other ones thru defi.

To me the whole point of blockchain and Defi is that the network doesn't scale but does it really need to.

Re: The Handwavy Technobabble Nothingburger of Crypto

#255

Post by betwixthewires »

keyanp wrote: post #62
padobson wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is what I don't understand from the naysayers. Anyone who says blockchain-driven assets don't have intrinsic value seems to ignore the value of trust - the ability to trust that the ledger is accurate seems extremely valuable. The author of the article skips over the question entirely, maybe he's addressed it elsewhere, but if the crypto skeptics continue to ignore one of its primary value propositions, I…

> the ability to trust that the ledger is accurate seems extremely valuable Maybe it "seems" valuable, but why exactly is it valuable? For what use case and which situation (besides crime)? I think the issue is that many don't see value in its "primary value proposition" because the features they want from banks are already there (stability, FDIC insurance). The only thing I personally see missing is no/low-fee insta…

> ...(besides crime)

First you have to define "crime." If by "crime" you mean "any activity outside the purview of regulatory authorities" then you're defining everything that isn't a bank account as crime. It is circular logic. "Its only use case is crime because using it is crime." If you more narrowly define crime as criminal acts besides just unregulated financial activities, then you can start to see the value proposition.

Re: The Handwavy Technobabble Nothingburger of Crypto

#256

Post by zachmx »

ethbr0 wrote: post #202
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whether you agree with that perspective is another thing. Many crypto enthusiasts, whether they are explicit about it or not, like the idea of creating an economic system that everyone can participate in that doesn't involve countless middle-men. Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the whole blockchain thing depend on an uncountable number of middlemen to verify transactions? They just don't have to trust them. No…

I guess the distinction would probably be commoditized middle-men. Read, as distinct from our current champion middle-men, chosen by favor, regulation, and access to capital.

Explained simply, while there are indeed users acting as the middle man verifying transactions, you don't have to worry about trusting them because the system is built in a way where you know exactly what they're going to do.

To add to this idea of mining, theres a more grandiose theory that smart contracts are the additive tool that we can use to build all sorts of incentives in our society for people to collaborate effectively. You don't have to force people to collaborate towards the greater good if you can just incentivize them to build the thing you need. This allows them to mine out the value and build a better and more trust-less community at large. It's like a bug bounty but for problems in society.

Re: The Handwavy Technobabble Nothingburger of Crypto

#257

Post by rawtxapp »

BoysenberryPi wrote: post #155

When it comes to crypto I am completely uninformed. In my uninformed opinion, I think there is probably something of value in crypto and the blockchain but I can't see it under the intense amount of bullshit the crypto community comes up with and I am not willing to dig through that mountain.

Exactly the same as dot-com bubble where bs companies with just a domain name were the hot thing, if you just looked at that and wrote off tech, you would have made the wrong decision. Being on HN probably means you're technical enough to sort through the noise and find the actual value for yourself until the market does it for you.

Re: The Handwavy Technobabble Nothingburger of Crypto

#258

Post by betwixthewires »

webmaven wrote: post #106
bobmichael wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One IMO realistic use-case is providing a wealth preservation mechanism for people living in a country with a corrupt government that's experiencing hyperinflation, for example Lebanon.

> One IMO realistic use-case is providing a wealth preservation mechanism for people living in a country with a corrupt government that's experiencing hyperinflation, for example Lebanon. Sure, but (like it or not) that's covered under the umbrella of "crime".

Yep, but all that means is that "crime" is a meaningless distinction itself.

Re: The Handwavy Technobabble Nothingburger of Crypto

#259

Post by sweetbitter »

davidw wrote: post #192
BoysenberryPi wrote: post #155

When it comes to crypto I am completely uninformed. In my uninformed opinion, I think there is probably something of value in crypto and the blockchain but I can't see it under the intense amount of bullshit the crypto community comes up with and I am not willing to dig through that mountain.

I'm in a similar boat. I could see ... something of value coming out of all this, perhaps something unexpected. But I certainly don't want to get involved with all the grifters, scammers, hucksters, confidence men, cryptobros and their various and sundry schemes. Knowing that I don't know much about the details of it... I think of "if you're playing a poker game and you look around the table and and can't tell who th…

As many in the community joke, "don't buy [currency] unless you have a use-case". If your "use-case" includes gambling at the casino and not simple transactions, it is indeed better not to play.

Re: The Handwavy Technobabble Nothingburger of Crypto

#260

Post by tigereyeTO »

The author of this article makes specious claims that can each be refuted.

>Any application that could be done on a blockchain could be better done on a centralized database. Except crime.

That's simply not true. First he doesn't define "better" which is incredibly important when making such a claim. I would agree that centralized databases can do things "more quickly" and "with less overhead" but you'd lose the most important quality of what make cryptocurrencies important: "without permission, consent, or control of anyone else."

Centralized systems can make changes to your data without your knowledge or consent. They can freeze/edit/delete your records without your say. Decentralized systems that use blockchains are immune to this, and for people who prioritize privacy or use of a system without consent from some over-arching 3rd party, they would definitely say blockchain-based systems are "better"

>crypto assets have no claim to be currencies because their deflationary properties and volatility don’t fulfill the theoretical or even practical function of money

This is untrue. There are government-issued currencies that are far more volatile than cryptocurrencies are. There are 3 functions of money: store of value, unit of account, and medium of exchange. Cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin fulfill all 3.

>They aren’t commodities because they have no non-circular economic use case.

Again untrue. ENS and Handshake allow registration of domains without a centralized DNS registrar. Helium tokens allow access to a global decentralized sensor/relay network without relying on centralized telecoms. ETH and AKT allow you to code and deploy a program that does not rely on any centralized servers in two different formats. Sentinel (DVPN) lets you pay for and access a decentralized VPN without relying on a centralized party. Each of these projects - and many many others - have economic use cases that are not circular.

The author has twisted facts to conform to his own predetermined reality.

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