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The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

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Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#131

Post by h2odragon »

londons_explore wrote: post #118
londons_explore wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whats needed is a much stronger guarantee. For example, "If this device ever , even once, shows an error message or misbehaves, then we'll give you a full refund, plus $100". If there was some logo and brand associated with that guarantee, consumers would prefer it, just like today some only buy organic or freetrade. Then manufacturers would want the extra sales generated by that logo/brand, and have a massive financ…

To take this further... To mean anything, this guarantee needs to apply unconditionally and forever. Even in 50 years... Even when the manufacturer is bankrupt. To do that, There could be a "Will Work Guarantee" organisation. The organisation will administer refunds to all customers with claims, (and combat fraud). Companies who want to be members of the scheme must pay into the scheme to cover payouts for their own…

Of course this would have to be a Government service, maybe just government backed; and would have to set barriers to market entry and enforce standards to keep obvious trash off the market... "Ministry of Production" perhaps?

Can't imagine any downsides.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#132

Post by freen »

ninkendo wrote: post #9

I did my whole house in Lutron’s smart switches (close to 50 of them), and I think it’s good? It’s been about 2 years now and I really haven’t had any issues. The switches aren’t Wi-Fi connected, because Wi-Fi would be an awful choice for 50 devices that you only communicate with a few times a day. They use their own wireless frequency and communicate in a really simple/reliable way to the bridge, which is wired to m…

This.

WiFi is the enemy.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#133

Post by HanShotFirst »

lima wrote: post #123
markbnj wrote: post #86

Yeah over the last few weeks Alexa has grown annoyingly chatty. Pretty much every ask, like "Alexa, what's the outside temperature?" is followed by the answer and then "Did you know..." which is itself followed by me saying "Alexa stop" in an irritated voice. "Computer, lay in a course to intercept the Romulan cruiser." "Intercept course calculated. Did you know, I can automatically reorder toilet paper for the bridg…

Google Assistant never does that, thankfully. (...yet?)

My Google Home has definitely done this on several occasions. Seems sporadic though, not enough to truly annoy me yet.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#134

Post by JshWright »

krrrh wrote: post #119
curiousllama wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed that "did you know" sucks. Worst possible way to teach me to use the device. That said, it's a really interesting problem figuring out how to teach people what Alexa can/can't do. How do you tell your users "we built a feature so now you can set subscription orders!" Personally, I don't get why they don't run ads. Like, instead of a smiley face delivery person, just say "here's a new thing your Alexa can do"

> it's a really interesting problem figuring out how to teach people what Alexa can/can't do A monthly email seems more than adequate.

I bet the open rate on that email would be far from "adequate" (depending on the perspective we're looking at it from).

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#135

Post by npteljes »

oftenwrong wrote: post #39

I share the neo-luddist perspective of many of the other commenters, but it's also clear that there are basic product quality issues at hand. Switching something on and off on a schedule is not a hard problem to solve, in theory, so why doesn't it work? Is there something about the ecosystem and interfaces between devices and hubs that is lacking? Did the company just not test their product sufficiently?

I feel the ROI is better if instead of QA you spend it on ads and PR.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#136

Post by nradov »

julianlam wrote: post #106
londons_explore wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whats needed is a much stronger guarantee. For example, "If this device ever , even once, shows an error message or misbehaves, then we'll give you a full refund, plus $100". If there was some logo and brand associated with that guarantee, consumers would prefer it, just like today some only buy organic or freetrade. Then manufacturers would want the extra sales generated by that logo/brand, and have a massive financ…

There is the UL certification, but I doubt it covers software. That's the crux of the issue, isn't, that _mechanically_ everything is working fine, but something outside of the control of the unit (e.g. spotty wifi, internet connectivity issues) cause UX issues. In the end, whose fault is it?

UL certification is really all about safety, as in a software defect won't cause an electrical fire and burn your house down. They don't guarantee a good user experience.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#137

Post by brudgers »

moffkalast wrote: post #58
xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a counter point, I've lived in places with frequent power disruptions and smart timers that use the internet and NTP and figure out the time work _so much better_ than the mechanical timers.

I hate to be the tiktok pokerface simple solution meme guy, but that's a solvable issue by just adding a RTC module, no complex internet garbage required.

A realtime clock for a mechanical timer of the type I believe the comment alludes based on reference to the 1970's would require stepper motors, solenoids, rigid frames and such to turn the dial. Maybe a camera too to determine the state of the timer.

...and hence the fussiness of home automation. Or to put it another way, clockworks are inherently so complicated that features are literally called "complications." TAANSAFL. YMMV.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#138

Post by JshWright »

freddie_mercury wrote: post #70
maccard wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I never think about light in my home, I flip the switch if I need it - lights seem like such a chore to my friends who have to issue commands to a speaker and that’s one of the few things this tech is supposed to be good at Pre-covid we used to leave the dog at home during the day (I now WFH so not an issue), but it gets dark at 3:30 here during the winter, meaning the dog is stuck sitting in the dark for 2 hours.…

> Philips Hue has routines for turning on lamps 30 minutes before sunset FWIW, mechanical timers have been able to do this for decades. 20+ years ago I had a mechanical timer that turned on my porch lights at sunset and off at 11pm. You just needed to configure your latitude so it knew when sunset was.

Wouldn't it also need to know the date? Around here sunset ranges from 4:30pm to 9pm, depending on the time of year.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#139

Post by ubermonkey »

I cannot be the only jaded nerd to have looked at all the highly integrated "smart home" crap on the market and scoffed. I have absolutely NO desire to sysadmin my goddamn house. I've been in this game a long time, and I know none of that stuff is going to be made well, or coded well, or be able to interoperate well, and that means HEADACHES.

And people buy them! Like, they buy internet-connected LOCKS for their doors! Seriously, why would you do this?

One truth I've gradually learned over the last couple decades is that companies that decide to make a "smart" version of an ordinarily non-smart object invariably screw it up. They don't want to hire good devs, or good product design people, and they end up with a hamfisted mess. Even companies that make somewhat-smart devices can screw this up when they try and "level up" (the example I usually use is Garmin, who have shredded their reputation in the cycling community with unreliable software over the course of the last 7 or 8 years).

Do I have any "smart" things in my house? Yes, but ONLY A COUPLE, and I don't expect them to talk to anything else.

1. I have Belkin WeMo switches on some lights. I bought them because we were going on vacation and wanted to put timers on them, and it was one of these (with a nice phone app for configuration) or the traditional fiddly million-little-switch kind. They work GREAT. The software is now smart enough to peg the "on" event to dusk, which is neat (i.e., it means I no longer have to reset them twice a year for DST).

Do they talk to Alexa or Siri or whatever? No idea. Never set it up. Don't care. Not important.

2. I have a couple HomePods. One, an original model, is in the kitchen. It sounds pretty great for its footprint, and can do other things too ("hey siri, how many ounces in a pint?" or "Hey siri, give me a 12 minute timer") that come in handy when cooking. On the strength of its performance, I bought a smaller one for our bedroom/bathroom, and it's fine, too. Do they connect to anything else? Not really. That's fine.

(I mean, yes, they connect to Apple to work, but I'm comfortable with that. I mean I haven't tried to connect them to anything else in the house.)

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#140

Post by at_a_remove »

h2odragon wrote: post #2

In that same time period, my "plant light" timer, a $15 mechanical item of a design unmodified since the 1970s, has worked flawlessly, requiring attention only when the clocks change or my schedule does. It has not informed Google, Amazon, or anyone else about its job or anything else in my home. It has generated no royalties nor invoked any support or ongoing maintenance costs. It has never needed a software upgrade…

You know those "strip of LEDs on a gooseneck" plant lights? Even these, low-end as they are, have similar issues. They have buttons instead of physical switches. If the power goes out, I have to remember what sequence of button-presses gets me a twelve-hour timer. And you can't even set it to "always on" and control with a mechanical timer. Maddening.
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