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The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

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Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#111

Post by gkop »

londons_explore wrote: post #104
h2odragon wrote: post #2

In that same time period, my "plant light" timer, a $15 mechanical item of a design unmodified since the 1970s, has worked flawlessly, requiring attention only when the clocks change or my schedule does. It has not informed Google, Amazon, or anyone else about its job or anything else in my home. It has generated no royalties nor invoked any support or ongoing maintenance costs. It has never needed a software upgrade…

Mechanical timers aren't as reliable as you make out. For example, if you attach loads with high startup or inductive currents, like fridges or big motors/fans to them, then they'll wear out very fast and typically stop working in a few months. If they jam for any reason, they'll usually overheat and melt all the little plastic gears inside. This happens if you tell them to turn on and off every 15 minutes all day...…

Digitizing the timer doesn’t improve the reliability of the electrical components though.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#112

Post by op00to »

londons_explore wrote: post #98
everdrive wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got the same old-fashioned mechanical timer. I actually attached it to one of those "box fan filters" that people talk about here from time to time. (So I can filter on a schedule) It works perfectly, and I've never had any issues with it. I'm thoroughly convinced that if I tried to replace it with a "smart" device I'd have no shortage of issues. I like your thinking regarding the lack of reliability with these…

Whats needed is a much stronger guarantee. For example, "If this device ever , even once, shows an error message or misbehaves, then we'll give you a full refund, plus $100". If there was some logo and brand associated with that guarantee, consumers would prefer it, just like today some only buy organic or freetrade. Then manufacturers would want the extra sales generated by that logo/brand, and have a massive financ…

I prefer to buy and use stuff with “open”-ish interfaces. This is usually more commercial, industrial, or high end, but I don’t need my request to turn on the light to go to some server in AWS.

I like these openish interfaces because when it breaks, I can fix it.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#113

Post by vultour »

driverdan wrote: post #78
yholio wrote: post #23

I think any software engineer with some industry experience will absolutely NOT install a device in his home that receives automatic updates over the internet and is critical for performing some task or using some basic functionality of the house; especially one that has a well known, highly stable and ergonomic traditional mode of interaction - controlling the lights and water, opening the windows and shades etc. We…

> I think any software engineer with some industry experience will absolutely NOT install a device in his home that receives automatic updates Have you ever talked to another SE? The majority I know don't even care about privacy and have all kinds of invasive auto update devices in their homes (Alexa, Nest, Ring, etc).

Same, most of the tech people I know have no aversion to these things, plus Chrome, Facebook, stock Android or other Google products. It makes me sad that the people who should be pushing against the death of the free internet don't give a shit. At this point I've accepted that Firefox will be going away at some point in the not-so-distant future, but somebody will have to pry it from my cold dead hands.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#114

Post by op00to »

gangstead wrote: post #88
ninkendo wrote: post #9

I did my whole house in Lutron’s smart switches (close to 50 of them), and I think it’s good? It’s been about 2 years now and I really haven’t had any issues. The switches aren’t Wi-Fi connected, because Wi-Fi would be an awful choice for 50 devices that you only communicate with a few times a day. They use their own wireless frequency and communicate in a really simple/reliable way to the bridge, which is wired to m…

I worked at Lutron my first two years after getting my EE. I wasn't on the wireless products but we did do crazy amounts of fussing over fall back behaviors and corner cases. We very much developed the software with the attitude of hardware: we knew what we shipped had to work for years and field updates were unacceptable. I've been gone from Coopersburg for 15 years but I still practice the engineering culture I lea…

As a customer I can say Lutron engineers totally engaged with me over a home assistant bug and helped get it fixed.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#115

Post by tillinghast »

boringg wrote: post #100

Oh god I installed Nest fire alarm products throughout my home. Such a PAIN. Last 8 months at most before new batteries. Wireless updates kick it off the network all the effin time. Wish I could get my money back - now I am committed to this garbage product for at least 5 more years (if they last). Worst - incredibly little value generated from nest.

I would be terrified to have a needy, unreliable network of "smart" smoke / fire detectors. How is that even remotely acceptable?

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#116

Post by ethbr0 »

londons_explore wrote: post #98
everdrive wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got the same old-fashioned mechanical timer. I actually attached it to one of those "box fan filters" that people talk about here from time to time. (So I can filter on a schedule) It works perfectly, and I've never had any issues with it. I'm thoroughly convinced that if I tried to replace it with a "smart" device I'd have no shortage of issues. I like your thinking regarding the lack of reliability with these…

Whats needed is a much stronger guarantee. For example, "If this device ever , even once, shows an error message or misbehaves, then we'll give you a full refund, plus $100". If there was some logo and brand associated with that guarantee, consumers would prefer it, just like today some only buy organic or freetrade. Then manufacturers would want the extra sales generated by that logo/brand, and have a massive financ…

> "If this device ever, even once, shows an error message or misbehaves, then we'll give you a full refund, plus $100".

Apple solved this by just never showing error messa...Your computer was restarted because of a problem.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#117

Post by mavhc »

jaywalk wrote: post #35
rwmj wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "Z-wave" function would never be used in my house so it would just be adding cost. Considerable cost at that - a plain white plastic light switch is £1.99, and the "Z-wave" ones I can see on Amazon are all around £20-£40!

I was providing a smart home alternative to your example of having to use an app to turn something on and off. I don't think you're going to find a smart switch, Z-wave or not, for £1.99

Connect a switch to a £1 esp32, now it's smart

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#118

Post by londons_explore »

londons_explore wrote: post #98
everdrive wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've got the same old-fashioned mechanical timer. I actually attached it to one of those "box fan filters" that people talk about here from time to time. (So I can filter on a schedule) It works perfectly, and I've never had any issues with it. I'm thoroughly convinced that if I tried to replace it with a "smart" device I'd have no shortage of issues. I like your thinking regarding the lack of reliability with these…

Whats needed is a much stronger guarantee. For example, "If this device ever , even once, shows an error message or misbehaves, then we'll give you a full refund, plus $100". If there was some logo and brand associated with that guarantee, consumers would prefer it, just like today some only buy organic or freetrade. Then manufacturers would want the extra sales generated by that logo/brand, and have a massive financ…

To take this further... To mean anything, this guarantee needs to apply unconditionally and forever. Even in 50 years... Even when the manufacturer is bankrupt.

To do that, There could be a "Will Work Guarantee" organisation. The organisation will administer refunds to all customers with claims, (and combat fraud). Companies who want to be members of the scheme must pay into the scheme to cover payouts for their own products, plus a deposit for future failures of their products if they go bankrupt.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#119

Post by krrrh »

curiousllama wrote: post #96
markbnj wrote: post #86

Yeah over the last few weeks Alexa has grown annoyingly chatty. Pretty much every ask, like "Alexa, what's the outside temperature?" is followed by the answer and then "Did you know..." which is itself followed by me saying "Alexa stop" in an irritated voice. "Computer, lay in a course to intercept the Romulan cruiser." "Intercept course calculated. Did you know, I can automatically reorder toilet paper for the bridg…

Agreed that "did you know" sucks. Worst possible way to teach me to use the device. That said, it's a really interesting problem figuring out how to teach people what Alexa can/can't do. How do you tell your users "we built a feature so now you can set subscription orders!" Personally, I don't get why they don't run ads. Like, instead of a smiley face delivery person, just say "here's a new thing your Alexa can do"

> it's a really interesting problem figuring out how to teach people what Alexa can/can't do

A monthly email seems more than adequate.

Re: The unbearable fussiness of the smart home

#120

Post by JshWright »

ninkendo wrote: post #9

I did my whole house in Lutron’s smart switches (close to 50 of them), and I think it’s good? It’s been about 2 years now and I really haven’t had any issues. The switches aren’t Wi-Fi connected, because Wi-Fi would be an awful choice for 50 devices that you only communicate with a few times a day. They use their own wireless frequency and communicate in a really simple/reliable way to the bridge, which is wired to m…

Yep, similar story here. I have a couple dozen ZWave switches and other devices in my house which have worked great for a few years now. I use Home Assistant with a USB ZWave radio. I've broken it a couple times while fiddling with it, but it has never broken on its own.

I do have a few wifi devices for cases where there is no good ZWave option (or the wifi options are just better, like the OpenGarage garage door controller).

I really enjoy being able to double tap the "off" position of the switch in our bedroom when we turn in for the night and have it do all the things (thermostats turned down, doors locked, garage doors closed, lights off, etc). Once that script finishes it triggers a verification script that double checks the status of all other devices and sends a push notification to our phones confirming everything was done.

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