Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

wired.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 151 posts

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#61

Post by wvenable »

10u152 wrote: post #48
ehsankia wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't been following this super closely but I think you're missing an entire angle of this. The copying part is just a symptom, the real issue was that 1. McDonald's forced all franchise owners to use this machine that would break often, and could only be fixed by this other company McDonalds had close ties to. 2. McDonald's didn't allow franchise owners to allow this other tool that allowed franchise owners to k…

1. - As an ex employee - it’s a little bit more complicated than that. The machines have strict daily/weekly protocols for cleaning/maintenance and when they’re not met they “break” and need to have a tech reset them. It’s obviously due to the manufacturer not wanting to be liable for anything from a food poisoning standpoint. I don’t think they have a lower MTBF for “real” failures than competitors.

They do have a lower MTBF than other Taylor machines sold to other fast food chains. McDonalds requires franchises to purchase specific models that are more prone to failure and harder to repair.

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#62

Post by DonHopkins »

jacquesm wrote: post #45
abdel_nasser wrote: post #20

how disgusting. it makes me think that vertical integration is great for countries where the losing party of a lawsuit doesnt face any form of disincentive like paying the legal expenses of the winning party. if you are a company that tries to sell a product like this ice-cream mod then you will be sued but its better to have your own burger joint and fill it with your own inventions. they say that the company was br…

> "i sometimes think of what a better mcdonalds would look like." Gone.

Replaced by a Spud-U-Like! (Oh yes, I do, I do!)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spudulike

https://spudulikebyjamesmartin.com/

Check out that "Bad Boy Hot Dog".

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#63

Post by rndgermandude »

jacquesm wrote: post #54
14 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m from the 80’s. First they used to actually use beef tallow up until the 90s when they switched to vegetable oil. Major decline in taste and texture. Fries used to stay crispy longer and the flavour was much more rich. Also you used to be able to get a cheese burger for like $0.60. It used to be affordable but at some point the prices skyrocketed and they got their new menu items which mostly sucked. They used to…

I've never seen them provide value for money here in Europe compared to what was already available. What boosted them - and killed a lot of the local competition - was that tourists seemed to prefer them. We had plenty of fast food here that was quite ok before then.

Here in Germany, we still have a lot of other fast food, like the local Döner shops, or local "Asian" shops selling mostly Chinese, Thai and/or Vietnamese dishes (usually their menus are a mix), or pizza-to-go places or the good old "Currywurstbude" (selling Currywurst of course, but usually things like Schnitzel and even burgers as well). Even my own minor city (about 250k people) also has a lot of other fast food (as in takeout and/or delivery not necessarily junk food) places on top of the usual assortment of Döner/Asian/Pizza/Currywurst. "Downtown" has a Kurdish place, a Lebanese place, a Mongolian BBQ, a Croatian place, a bunch of Indian and Pakistani places, two or three Sushi places, and I am sure a lot of others that I don't really know about. And that's not even counting the places operating as "real" restaurants.

I know a few people who go to McD because "you know what you'll get", but I personally never felt the need, the competition is better in taste more often than not, and McD are not even cheaper than most of the alternatives, sometimes even more expensive. The last time I was at McD was when I was stranded at some small train station some years ago and didn't have the time to look around and just settled with the McD located right in the station building (I would have gone with the Burger King in the same building, but it was closed for renovations). That's when I found out that the quality of their fries took a slump, at least in my humble opinion.

Personally, I'd rather have a Dürüm from a Döner shop, or Pho Tron from one of the Asia places, or maybe some Masala from an Indian place.

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#64

Post by jacquesm »

DonHopkins wrote: post #59
jacquesm wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never seen them provide value for money here in Europe compared to what was already available. What boosted them - and killed a lot of the local competition - was that tourists seemed to prefer them. We had plenty of fast food here that was quite ok before then.

FEBO!!! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FEBO Eating from the wall is like late night window shopping in Amsterdam's culinary red light district. https://uncloggedblog.com/2013/12/10/five-ways-to-see-amster... >Window-shopping for fast food at FEBO. >If you must, eat from the wall at FEBO, an inexplicably popular Dutch tradition that satisfies appetites 24/7 with automated fast food displayed in tiny windows. No telling…

Some history: FeBo stands for 'Ferdinand Bol', a street in the 'Pijp' district of Amsterdam, where it originated. When I was a small child (1971, 6 yo) we moved into that neighborhood and I remember them from then. My mom expressly forbidding us kids from eating whatever they offered because it was deemed to be just one small notch above garbage.

And I'm not sure that that wasn't on the money with respect to what goes into their frikandellen and kroketten.

But their fries are pretty good.

Too bad we lost Broodje van Kootje to the chains.

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#65

Post by stainforth »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #32
pigbearpig wrote: post #25

First off, Taylor probably is happy with having machines that need service and who knows why McDonald's wants broken machines. I see nothing wrong with Taylor wanting to improve their own remote monitoring UX. That's just how competition works. Kytch make a good app, and what is Taylor supposed to do, not improve theirs? That part of Kytch's argument is bull. Kytch can MITM and reverse engineer Taylor's machines, but…

The evidence up to this point strongly suggests Taylor and McDonald’s are interested in milking franchisees (who must source equipment from Taylor per their agreement with McDonald’s corporate), while Kytch actively demonstrated attempting to deliver a better engineered product to franchisees. This is important, as it demonstrates racketeering and anti competitive behavior on the part of Taylor and McDonald’s, and it…

Quizno's failure is a good comparable case study for this type of franchisee model - https://www.mashed.com/132827/the-real-reason-why-quiznos-is... When you don't take care of your operators and actively try to screw them over its no wonder that you fail ultimately. But they were bought out by some point by a vulture capital company that probably just turned those screws tighter on the franchisees.

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#66

Post by DonHopkins »

jacquesm wrote: post #64
DonHopkins wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FEBO!!! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FEBO Eating from the wall is like late night window shopping in Amsterdam's culinary red light district. https://uncloggedblog.com/2013/12/10/five-ways-to-see-amster... >Window-shopping for fast food at FEBO. >If you must, eat from the wall at FEBO, an inexplicably popular Dutch tradition that satisfies appetites 24/7 with automated fast food displayed in tiny windows. No telling…

Some history: FeBo stands for 'Ferdinand Bol', a street in the 'Pijp' district of Amsterdam, where it originated. When I was a small child (1971, 6 yo) we moved into that neighborhood and I remember them from then. My mom expressly forbidding us kids from eating whatever they offered because it was deemed to be just one small notch above garbage. And I'm not sure that that wasn't on the money with respect to what goe…

It's not just the food, but the people you meet later in life at 3am hanging outside of FEBO that your mother was trying to protect you from, Jacques.

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#67

Post by raverbashing »

kjaftaedi wrote: post #31
PeterisP wrote: post #27

I don't see any basis why the complaint is interesting - there's assertion that the ice cream machine manufacturer is copying features of the competitor's device, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do and, in the absence of patent protection (the word "patent" is not mentioned in the article) absolutely permissible; and there's some assertion of "stealing trade secrets" without asserting any actual compromise o…

I wouldn't call it competition since McDonald's specifically forbade franchisees from using Kytch's device.

Yeah, and for some reason McD thinks you need a technician to fix something hard like "container overfilled" or something. And apparently even Taylor thinks this is stupid. Sounds like an "ok boomer" moment. (or maybe something involving financial incentives, can't exclude that)

"Who mitms their own machine?!" Well, did Taylor fire the engineers that built this? Or they just want to keep the same limited hw and work the diagnostics part around it?

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#68

Post by jacquesm »

DonHopkins wrote: post #66
jacquesm wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some history: FeBo stands for 'Ferdinand Bol', a street in the 'Pijp' district of Amsterdam, where it originated. When I was a small child (1971, 6 yo) we moved into that neighborhood and I remember them from then. My mom expressly forbidding us kids from eating whatever they offered because it was deemed to be just one small notch above garbage. And I'm not sure that that wasn't on the money with respect to what goe…

It's not just the food, but the people you meet later in life at 3am hanging outside of FEBO that your mother was trying to protect you from, Jacques.

That's got to be it. But I got to know you anyway... ;)

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#69

Post by Niksko »

PeterisP wrote: post #50
ehsankia wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't been following this super closely but I think you're missing an entire angle of this. The copying part is just a symptom, the real issue was that 1. McDonald's forced all franchise owners to use this machine that would break often, and could only be fixed by this other company McDonalds had close ties to. 2. McDonald's didn't allow franchise owners to allow this other tool that allowed franchise owners to k…

Well, 1. and 2. is about contracts between McDonalds and their franchisees, so if a franchise owner feels unfairly harmed by this restriction, then they can sue McDonalds , it's not something about which Kytch should be able to sue Taylor. And, once again, it's perfectly reasonable and very common for franchise agreements to mandate certain suppliers for some products, goods and services, and the close ties don't mak…

You're missing an important aspect of the lawsuit. Kytch is alleging loss of business due to defamation by McDonald's, be because McDs falsely claimed that the Kytch could harm the Taylor machines.

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#70

Post by azinman2 »

wvenable wrote: post #61
10u152 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. - As an ex employee - it’s a little bit more complicated than that. The machines have strict daily/weekly protocols for cleaning/maintenance and when they’re not met they “break” and need to have a tech reset them. It’s obviously due to the manufacturer not wanting to be liable for anything from a food poisoning standpoint. I don’t think they have a lower MTBF for “real” failures than competitors.

They do have a lower MTBF than other Taylor machines sold to other fast food chains. McDonalds requires franchises to purchase specific models that are more prone to failure and harder to repair.

Why would they do that?
Post reply on HN