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New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

wired.com

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Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#31

Post by kjaftaedi »

PeterisP wrote: post #27

I don't see any basis why the complaint is interesting - there's assertion that the ice cream machine manufacturer is copying features of the competitor's device, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do and, in the absence of patent protection (the word "patent" is not mentioned in the article) absolutely permissible; and there's some assertion of "stealing trade secrets" without asserting any actual compromise o…

I wouldn't call it competition since McDonald's specifically forbade franchisees from using Kytch's device.

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#32

Post by toomuchtodo »

pigbearpig wrote: post #25

First off, Taylor probably is happy with having machines that need service and who knows why McDonald's wants broken machines. I see nothing wrong with Taylor wanting to improve their own remote monitoring UX. That's just how competition works. Kytch make a good app, and what is Taylor supposed to do, not improve theirs? That part of Kytch's argument is bull. Kytch can MITM and reverse engineer Taylor's machines, but…

The evidence up to this point strongly suggests Taylor and McDonald’s are interested in milking franchisees (who must source equipment from Taylor per their agreement with McDonald’s corporate), while Kytch actively demonstrated attempting to deliver a better engineered product to franchisees. This is important, as it demonstrates racketeering and anti competitive behavior on the part of Taylor and McDonald’s, and it’s possible the FTC gets involved further besides making an inquiry.

One might expect franchisees have the right to repair their purchased equipment, even if forced to purchase specific food sevice equipment as part of their franchise agreement. One would not expect their equipment provider and franchisor to collude against them.

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#33

Post by EdwardDiego »

14 wrote: post #19

The wired article was extremely short not sure if I’m just not getting the full article? It seems from my perspective that Taylor and McDonald’s conspired to take money from the franchise owners. What a shame. Because all it does is incentives owners to cut corners like say serve cold fries so they don’t lose money. McDonald’s used to be great but somewhere lost the way. They used to be the affordable place anyone co…

What I'm enjoying is their randomly changing offers post-lockdowns in my country, and how they don't communicate them at all.

Their "gourmet" burgers are now only available from 10:30am to 10:30pm, even in 24 hour joints.

Their "all day breakfast" they spent a lot of money advertising now ends at midday. This was notably not advertised. When I rocked up at 12:15pm looking for my regular Sunday McMuffin, and was informed of the new policy, I kinda understood that famous scene in Falling Down[1].

They have vanilla shakes! Sometimes, maybe. Plenty of the other shakes, but vanilla is hit and miss.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlzm7-gvTRg

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#34

Post by pstuart »

etempleton wrote: post #28
abdel_nasser wrote: post #20

how disgusting. it makes me think that vertical integration is great for countries where the losing party of a lawsuit doesnt face any form of disincentive like paying the legal expenses of the winning party. if you are a company that tries to sell a product like this ice-cream mod then you will be sued but its better to have your own burger joint and fill it with your own inventions. they say that the company was br…

“I sometimes wonder what a better McDonalds would look like.” I think a better McDonalds looks a lot like In and Out. If the Founder is accurate, McDonalds was a lot like In and Out at one time and operated like it. Chick-fil-a operates similarly. One thing that is always fascinating to me when I go to either of those two fast food restaurants is the army of workers they have on staff at any time. Usually each doing…

Except the fries. In and Out fries are not very good (ironic since they make a point of making them fresh, which would make one think they should be better).

Otherwise, better quality, prices, and service (and staff pay and treatment).

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#35

Post by xxpor »

pomian wrote: post #16
hereforphone wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the majority of the people in the world. Not just Fortune 500 execs.

In spite of every thing, I do not believe its a majority. As with many things, it is the loud minority. We would not have progress, if your statement were true.

Progress happens when the incumbent interest is disrupted by something they couldn't see coming, or couldn't stop because of their own inertia.

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#36

Post by abdel_nasser »

etempleton wrote: post #28
abdel_nasser wrote: post #20

how disgusting. it makes me think that vertical integration is great for countries where the losing party of a lawsuit doesnt face any form of disincentive like paying the legal expenses of the winning party. if you are a company that tries to sell a product like this ice-cream mod then you will be sued but its better to have your own burger joint and fill it with your own inventions. they say that the company was br…

“I sometimes wonder what a better McDonalds would look like.” I think a better McDonalds looks a lot like In and Out. If the Founder is accurate, McDonalds was a lot like In and Out at one time and operated like it. Chick-fil-a operates similarly. One thing that is always fascinating to me when I go to either of those two fast food restaurants is the army of workers they have on staff at any time. Usually each doing…

and i think its a much more dignified job to work at in n out than mcdonalds. their employees are always fresh and eager. it kind of reminds me of costco employees who always seem to be well put together.

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#37

Post by dehrmann »

djyaz1200 wrote: post #2

In my naivety I build a startup that fixed a problem for a fortune 500 company thinking they would be delighted. They weren't. These big companies are staffed by individuals who are focused on their career and will do absolutely anything to extinguish your company/idea and pretend it was their idea and champion the company's initiative. It's disgusting but it's reality and if you are a founder be ready for it.

They went through the numbers as realized it would be cheaper to build an equivalent product than buy your startup. This is always a risk founders and investors are aware of. There's nothing disgusting about it. I wouldn't even go as far as saying it was people "focused on their career." They were really just doing their jobs.

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#38

Post by ehsankia »

PeterisP wrote: post #27

I don't see any basis why the complaint is interesting - there's assertion that the ice cream machine manufacturer is copying features of the competitor's device, which is a perfectly reasonable thing to do and, in the absence of patent protection (the word "patent" is not mentioned in the article) absolutely permissible; and there's some assertion of "stealing trade secrets" without asserting any actual compromise o…

I haven't been following this super closely but I think you're missing an entire angle of this. The copying part is just a symptom, the real issue was that

1. McDonald's forced all franchise owners to use this machine that would break often, and could only be fixed by this other company McDonalds had close ties to.

2. McDonald's didn't allow franchise owners to allow this other tool that allowed franchise owners to keep their machines up and working

3. (What you mention) now the other company just copied this tool for themselves.

1 and 2 is much more problematic, given the close ties between McDonalds and Taylor Company.

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#39

Post by srj »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #32
pigbearpig wrote: post #25

First off, Taylor probably is happy with having machines that need service and who knows why McDonald's wants broken machines. I see nothing wrong with Taylor wanting to improve their own remote monitoring UX. That's just how competition works. Kytch make a good app, and what is Taylor supposed to do, not improve theirs? That part of Kytch's argument is bull. Kytch can MITM and reverse engineer Taylor's machines, but…

The evidence up to this point strongly suggests Taylor and McDonald’s are interested in milking franchisees (who must source equipment from Taylor per their agreement with McDonald’s corporate), while Kytch actively demonstrated attempting to deliver a better engineered product to franchisees. This is important, as it demonstrates racketeering and anti competitive behavior on the part of Taylor and McDonald’s, and it…

One part of this I don't understand is why would McDonald's benefit from their franchises constantly needing their ice cream machines serviced.

Re: New emails released in the McDonald’s ice cream machine lawsuit

#40

Post by [deleted] »

pstuart wrote: post #34
etempleton wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“I sometimes wonder what a better McDonalds would look like.” I think a better McDonalds looks a lot like In and Out. If the Founder is accurate, McDonalds was a lot like In and Out at one time and operated like it. Chick-fil-a operates similarly. One thing that is always fascinating to me when I go to either of those two fast food restaurants is the army of workers they have on staff at any time. Usually each doing…

Except the fries. In and Out fries are not very good (ironic since they make a point of making them fresh, which would make one think they should be better). Otherwise, better quality, prices, and service (and staff pay and treatment).

[deleted]
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