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How death rates from Covid-19 differ between vaccinated and unvaccinated

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Re: How death rates from Covid-19 differ between vaccinated and unvaccinated

#181

Post by Godel_unicode »

curiousgal wrote: post #9
elorant wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can't move on when a substantial part of the population remains unvaccinated. With hospitals in the brink of collapse, there would be no return to normality any time soon.

Well then make it a law. No amount of reasoning will change these people's mind. The only anti-vax people I've seen get vaccinated are the ones who lost a close one, and even that does not always work, let alone some data viz.

I know tons of people who have been convinced by talking, and have been very active in matching up experts I personally know to people who have questions. This is a tractable problem in the majority of cases, it just requires empathy and patience.

People are stressed, people are scared, people are exhausted. Righteous anger makes all of that worse.

Re: How death rates from Covid-19 differ between vaccinated and unvaccinated

#182

Post by pengaru »

listless wrote: post #175
pengaru wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the mask made no difference In my case How can you possibly know such a thing? The mask is more about reducing your spread to others, do you have reliable data on how many people you would have infected in lieu of masking? No, you don't.

All I know is I wore one and so did all my friends and it cut through all of us like a knife through butter. Nobody was spared. People think masks are going to save them. In my experience, they prevented nothing of consequence to me or the people I interact with.

Most of what it does is affect the probability of your spreading it to others, and it doesn't reduce that down to zero.

So it's unrealistic to expect masking to prevent your spreading it to close friends/family whom you're in frequent contact with.

But it lowers how much you're emitting past the mask while standing in line at the grocery store.

Your take on this seems incredibly self-centered.

Re: How death rates from Covid-19 differ between vaccinated and unvaccinated

#183

Post by Sohcahtoa82 »

curiousgal wrote: post #9
elorant wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can't move on when a substantial part of the population remains unvaccinated. With hospitals in the brink of collapse, there would be no return to normality any time soon.

Well then make it a law. No amount of reasoning will change these people's mind. The only anti-vax people I've seen get vaccinated are the ones who lost a close one, and even that does not always work, let alone some data viz.

I am vehemently pro-vaxx, but I'm against making it law, as that is an attack on bodily autonomy.

I'm fine with jobs requiring vaccination, and I'm fine with government jobs and public schools requiring vaccination, and even businesses (especially ones involving crowds of people, like conference/convention halls and cruise ships) requiring vaccination. It's basically saying, "You don't want to get vaccinated? Fine, then you don't get to participate in our society."

But a law introducing criminal penalties for being unvaxxed? No way.

Re: How death rates from Covid-19 differ between vaccinated and unvaccinated

#184

Post by titaniczero »

silent_cal wrote: post #158

Why are vaccinated people under 60 are dying at a higher rate than unvaccinated in England? https://alexberenson.substack.com/p/vaccinated-english-adult...

Probably because those rates are from 10 to 60 years, which is quite a broad range. People in their fifties/sixties die like A LOT more than young people and these ages happen to be the most vaccinated compared to the youngest ones. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/paradox-simpson/

Also, when we are seeing far fewer vaccinated people in hospital in most countries (in my country 70% of the admissions in the hospital are from unvaccinated people), it is not only that the number of vaccinated people in hospital is much lower, you have to keep in mind that the number of vaccinated people is much higher (in my country +80%, almost 90%, are vaccinated) so the effect of the vaccine in death rate is even much higher (before measuring the effect of vaccines we even thought that vaccinated people would be the most prevalent in hospital because the number is vastly superior)

Re: How death rates from Covid-19 differ between vaccinated and unvaccinated

#185

Post by tqi »

Bud wrote: post #101
steviedotboston wrote: post #32

It really seems like it's safe to say that a fully vaccinated person's risk of dying from covid is low enough where based on the pre-2020 accepted societal standards for risk there should be next to no behavior modification expected.

Sigh. How many times does this have to be explained before everyone gets it? It is not all about you. There are other people in the world. Masks and social distancing protect them, too. In addition, as others have noted in this thread, death is not the only bad result, here. Long covid is horrific, and even milder cases can have permanent health effects that are extremely undesirable.

> Sigh. How many times does this have to be explained before everyone gets it?

I don't know, but maybe if you're condescending and self satisfied enough you'll be the one who finally breaks through?

Re: How death rates from Covid-19 differ between vaccinated and unvaccinated

#186

Post by nradov »

dougmwne wrote: post #71

Dear HN, should I, a man under 40 get a booster shot? How many months after my second dose should I get it? What are the best resources to answer this question? This information is scary hard to get for someone who wants science, not politics.

If you previously received an mRNA vaccine then you might want to consider waiting to get a booster until the Novavax vaccine is approved. It uses different technology and we expect that the combination of two different vaccine types will likely produce a wider spectrum of immunity. But there's little hard data on that so far and you shouldn't take this as medical advice.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2107659

Re: How death rates from Covid-19 differ between vaccinated and unvaccinated

#187

Post by BoxOfRain »

Bud wrote: post #101
steviedotboston wrote: post #32

It really seems like it's safe to say that a fully vaccinated person's risk of dying from covid is low enough where based on the pre-2020 accepted societal standards for risk there should be next to no behavior modification expected.

Sigh. How many times does this have to be explained before everyone gets it? It is not all about you. There are other people in the world. Masks and social distancing protect them, too. In addition, as others have noted in this thread, death is not the only bad result, here. Long covid is horrific, and even milder cases can have permanent health effects that are extremely undesirable.

This is an unnecessarily sanctimonious post in my opinion. If you're in favour of fresh restrictions then for how long? To what extent? How much collateral damage in terms of mental health, education, the economy, social cohesion etc are you willing to accept? Implying people are selfish after two years of sacrifice is a rather churlish angle, in my opinion people advocating for continuing restrictions need to put numbers and cost/benefit analyses forward rather than cheap appeals to emotion.

Some people talk about these things as though they're inconsequential but the fact of the matter is that indefinite social distancing means effectively admitting we're going to permanently shutter swathes of the economy along with many cultural institutions that depend on high footfall. Indefinite masks means unprecedented levels of plastic pollution and difficulties for those with various disabilities. It's easy for us on HN who largely work remotely and earn high salaries to claim these measures are inconsequential but to many in other industries they are absolutely devestating.

Re: How death rates from Covid-19 differ between vaccinated and unvaccinated

#188

Post by frickinLasers »

lpolovets wrote: post #149
frickinLasers wrote: post #116

For the irrationally angry throwaway, here you go: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/ad... VAERS (an early warning system that allows unverified reports and requires physicians to report all seemingly related deaths) shows 0.0022% (9,810) of vaccinated individuals in the US died after receiving the vaccine. Generously assuming all those reports can be directly linked to the vaccination (they c…

> that figure is already three orders of magnitude lower than the 1.6% (772,000) I think the interesting ethical/moral/etc debate is what to do for people who are at lower or negligible risk of dying from COVID in the first place. For example, https://www.statista.com/statistics/1191568/reported-deaths-... suggests that <20k people under 40 have died from covid over 2 years. There might be age groups or demographics…

It seems like it could be a debate worth having. I'd love to see a similar breakdown of vaccine deaths by age (though I don't think there's an official count of confirmed vaccine deaths yet).

If a healthy under-40 individual had the same or slightly higher risk of dying from the vaccine as from covid, but a lower risk of passing it to their parents and any elderly person they come into contact with, should they prioritize their own small statistical advantage over the lives of those others? Should they also consider infections down the line, generated by the individuals they infected?

If someone were to present a convincing case that such a hypothetical were true, I might be forced to rethink some things. However, since the vaccine isn't mandatory, I don't see much in the way of actionable conclusions (other than posting the stats to the CDC website). Personally, I'd take on at least double the (low) risk to try and protect my family. But I'm also biased by knowing how shitty COVID can be, and preferring a quick death to a COVID death.

Re: How death rates from Covid-19 differ between vaccinated and unvaccinated

#189

Post by nradov »

op00to wrote: post #25
TigeriusKirk wrote: post #19

Why is the death rate in the US plummeting among the unvaccinated? Is it just less spread all around?

We have thereputics and understand how to treat it. Also younger people are getting sicker.

Younger people are getting infected at higher rates, however there's no reliable evidence that they're suffering more severe symptoms.

Re: How death rates from Covid-19 differ between vaccinated and unvaccinated

#190

Post by belter »

gardncl wrote: post #92
dougmwne wrote: post #71

Dear HN, should I, a man under 40 get a booster shot? How many months after my second dose should I get it? What are the best resources to answer this question? This information is scary hard to get for someone who wants science, not politics.

>What are the best resources to answer this question? Your physician. Not hacker news.

Your physician if he reads hacker news
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