Live data from Hacker News

Tilt-5 Was Magical

kguttag.com

21–30 of 42 posts

Re: Tilt-5 Was Magical

#21

As an anecdote, the CEO of tilt five wrote the guidance software for the Astra rocket that went sideways when an engine quit upon takeoff.

That's how I remember the story, too, but I ran into Jeri at a conference a couple of weeks ago and she said she actually did the telemetry system. Which is also amazing.

Re: Tilt-5 Was Magical

#22

Could we put the reflector on a wall, blow it up, and use it as a window with virtual screens behind it to create a "multi-monitor" set-up like others are trying out in VR right now? Or do the tracking markers have a limitation in how big a rectangle they can follow?

> The resolution is a modest 1280 by 720p > It has a 110-degree field of view With that big of a field of view, and that low of a resolution, I don't think you'd be happy with reading text. But I'm just guessing.

1280x720 AR eyeset can be good to excellent for reading text (I do it often).

But, the comfort is around a dozen lines (or less) per screen...

Re: Tilt-5 Was Magical

#23
post #15
post #6

I think, AR like this is the future of gaming. VR is a cool idea, but it falls short on so many levels. It looks cool to go into a space that isn't there, but you always have issues with the mismatch of your surroundings and the VR world. Playing Xing, and the recent Myst remake is awesome on desktop, but very tiresome on VR. The haptics are obviously not there and either you can't really walk where you need to go or…

This cracks me up. I don't think you are wrong, but I also remember not liking the original myst, thinking it was mainly a gimmick for cdrom drives. So, not being wrong doesn't necessarily mean you are right. There is a chance the vr world lights up. Hard to really say.

As someone whose VR headset has been collecting dust for a year, I think the key is movement. Moving in VR just sucks. Either you teleport around which is disorienting or you slide with a stick which is nauseating. All my favorite VR experiences didn't require me to move further than my play area. If someone comes up with a cheap omnidirectional treadmill or something just as good it'll blow the market wide open. Until then, almost everything is more fun on a normal screen than in VR.

Re: Tilt-5 Was Magical

#25

Disclosure, I have done some consulting for Tilt-5. I really don’t think people appreciate the technology of a retro reflective game surface and individual viewers. The concept that everyone gets to look at the game board from their own perspective is simultaneously “of course” and completely unintuitive to folks who are thinking “computer game.” I am not sure why this is but so often the comment from people who see…

The problem with hidden state is interacting with hidden state. Like if we're playing battleship the partition blocks you from seeing where I place my ships. But with a filtered display you can see where I move my hand and know there's a ship there. In short, hidden state requires hidden interaction which means some sort of controller.

At that point we might as well be playing video games on separate screens.

I think what we want is better board games. Which means cooperative play in a large world. Or maybe cool graphics. Or maybe the convenience of not having to buy/store physical games.

Re: Tilt-5 Was Magical

#26
post #25

Disclosure, I have done some consulting for Tilt-5. I really don’t think people appreciate the technology of a retro reflective game surface and individual viewers. The concept that everyone gets to look at the game board from their own perspective is simultaneously “of course” and completely unintuitive to folks who are thinking “computer game.” I am not sure why this is but so often the comment from people who see…

The problem with hidden state is interacting with hidden state. Like if we're playing battleship the partition blocks you from seeing where I place my ships. But with a filtered display you can see where I move my hand and know there's a ship there. In short, hidden state requires hidden interaction which means some sort of controller. At that point we might as well be playing video games on separate screens. I think…

So excellent idea. Consider that the players are in different rooms/places potentially thousands of miles apart. You look down at a patch of ocean with your ships arrayed and floating as if at anchor. Using the wand, you move over the game board and a light grid it superimposed on the surface of the ocean. As you reach a grid you suspect might have a ship or boat you click the wand trigger. A projectile come in from off screen and either you see a splash in the ocean or an explosion. With some debris around it. You repeat with the grid square next to it and another explosion and then a flaming patrol boat visualizes and sinks before your eyes.

Meanwhile when your opponent moves, in your array of ships you see the ocean splash as they take shots that don't hit your ships, and when they do, your ship begins to burn and flame. Eventually they get enough hits that the ship will sink. At that point both you and you opponent get to watch it sink.

You cannot see your opponent or their hands so that state is always hidden.

Re: Tilt-5 Was Magical

#27

Could we put the reflector on a wall, blow it up, and use it as a window with virtual screens behind it to create a "multi-monitor" set-up like others are trying out in VR right now? Or do the tracking markers have a limitation in how big a rectangle they can follow?

As others have said, that is probably not the best use of Tilt-5's technology. No matter how you move your head, it is still 1280x768 pixels spread over 110 degrees.

Doing a little math, that is only about 13 pixels per degree or 4.5 arcminute/pixel. Typical VR headsets are about 30 pixels/degree (2-arcminutes per pixel. For optical text reading like with a computer monitor, I consider 40 pixels/degree (1.5arcminutes/pixel) the bare minimum.

There is also some scintillation from the beaded screen. Not terrible, but enough that it would not be good for text. So even if the resolution was higher (which is possible with this technology), I'm still not sure it would be good as a computer monitor.

The case where it works best seems to be in "tabletop" applications, and it behaves best when the viewer is about 45 degrees to the surface. Business and military applications for things such as "sand tables" also fit this model.

Re: Tilt-5 Was Magical

#28
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with hidden state is interacting with hidden state. Like if we're playing battleship the partition blocks you from seeing where I place my ships. But with a filtered display you can see where I move my hand and know there's a ship there. In short, hidden state requires hidden interaction which means some sort of controller. At that point we might as well be playing video games on separate screens. I think…

So excellent idea. Consider that the players are in different rooms/places potentially thousands of miles apart. You look down at a patch of ocean with your ships arrayed and floating as if at anchor. Using the wand, you move over the game board and a light grid it superimposed on the surface of the ocean. As you reach a grid you suspect might have a ship or boat you click the wand trigger. A projectile come in from…

How is that better than playing on a tablet?

Re: Tilt-5 Was Magical

#29
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So excellent idea. Consider that the players are in different rooms/places potentially thousands of miles apart. You look down at a patch of ocean with your ships arrayed and floating as if at anchor. Using the wand, you move over the game board and a light grid it superimposed on the surface of the ocean. As you reach a grid you suspect might have a ship or boat you click the wand trigger. A projectile come in from…

How is that better than playing on a tablet?

The same reasons that playing in VR is better than on a monitor. But then one would question why this is better than VR. If all the players are physically separate and movement of physical pieces is limited (because all the opponent pieces are now virtual) you lose much of the benefit of AR.

This device is really best suited for people playing together in person (with online play a nice alternative, but not a primary target). As such I think a better example of the sort of hidden state it would work well with is Stratego. In that game the full board is visible to everyone but the identity of the individual playing pieces are not.

There are many other things you could do with hidden state, like show the stats of all your pieces floating above them, but not those of the opponents. Or show terrain of the board where your pieces have visited to you, but not to your opponents (who have to guess by your motions). It doesn't need to be completely hidden - partial knowledge or fog-of-war can make for interesting game dynamics as well.

Re: Tilt-5 Was Magical

#30
post #25

Disclosure, I have done some consulting for Tilt-5. I really don’t think people appreciate the technology of a retro reflective game surface and individual viewers. The concept that everyone gets to look at the game board from their own perspective is simultaneously “of course” and completely unintuitive to folks who are thinking “computer game.” I am not sure why this is but so often the comment from people who see…

The problem with hidden state is interacting with hidden state. Like if we're playing battleship the partition blocks you from seeing where I place my ships. But with a filtered display you can see where I move my hand and know there's a ship there. In short, hidden state requires hidden interaction which means some sort of controller. At that point we might as well be playing video games on separate screens. I think…

There is a controller. Unfortunately they haven’t yet revived the demo we did at CastAR where you reached out and manipulated real physical objects in the game. I have a video of that somewhere.
Post reply on HN