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The World's Deadliest Thing

the-angry-chef.com

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Re: The World's Deadliest Thing

#181

Post by foobarian »

raisedbyninjas wrote: post #164
foobarian wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cold smoke meat so I need to be especially careful about this. The good news is, even though the spores are very hardy and can survive boiling at sea level atmospheric pressure, the botulism toxin (i.e. the chemical produced by the germs that does the actual damage) is easy to destroy by cooking over 85 degrees C.

Are botulism spores found inside meat or just the surface? 85C in the center will overcook the meats I cook.

Not inside meat, no. I don't think it's a problem for run of the mill hot-smoking or BBQ. For cold-smoked stuff I don't dare eat it raw yet but use the meat in stews. Cold smoked pork ribs add a 3rd dimension to thick soups like pasta fagioli or split pea soup, while sausages are great fried. I don't know how to safely attempt a prosciutto or lox though :-)

Re: The World's Deadliest Thing

#182

Post by ceejayoz »

jandrese wrote: post #53
cgio wrote: post #27

The rapid, long-lasting and highly noticeable cosmetic effects made Botox a near instant success. In small doses, the same nerve damage that causes fatal paralysis in poisoning cases, helps to remove forehead creases and crow’s feet, with the only side effects being an inability to express emotion using your face, … ironic that many celebrities who publicly advocated a clean living, chemical-free lifestyle, were also…

Technically Botox is all natural. It's even vegan.

See also: apple seed extract (cyanide), ricin...

Re: The World's Deadliest Thing

#183

Post by toomanybeersies »

Arch-TK wrote: post #95
Stratoscope wrote: post #35

Pop quiz! Do you ever buy frozen vacuum-sealed fish? The kind where each piece is sealed in its own plastic pouch? It is convenient and delicious. To me it can taste fresher than some "fresh" fish. One reason is that the sealed pouch keeps oxygen out. Have you wondered why it says "remove all packaging before defrosting"? And ignored that advice like I did for many years? After all, the fish seems to defrost just fin…

Okay, so in the past we've used a sous-vide recirculator set to 30°C to quickly defrost fish which had been vacuum sealed (dodged a bullet apparently). I looked into it and the temperature at which it is safe to hold food without risk of toxin production is 3°C and less. What high-speed defrosting methods are there to replace this? is it okay to just open the fish for 30 minutes, re-seal it and then put it in the rec…

Back when I used to work in hospitality, we'd defrost fish (both vac sealed and loose) in cold running water.

Defrosting vac sealed fish in cold water over 20 minutes and immediately cooking it carries roughly zero risk of botulism, for 2 reasons:

1. The optimal growth temperature for C. botulinum is between 20-45 C [1], exponentially dropping off outside that range. That's why improperly canned food is risky, as it's usually stored in that range for weeks or months.

2. The bacteria is slow growing and doesn't cause illness itself, it also can't grow in the acidic conditions of the adult human gut. Rather, it's the excreted toxin that's dangerous, which takes several days to form [2].

[1] https://www.publish.csiro.au/bi/pdf/bi9530178 (p.p. 182)

[2] https://journals.asm.org/doi/pdf/10.1128/aem.62.8.3069-3072.... (p.p. 3071)

Re: The World's Deadliest Thing

#185

Post by ceejayoz »

sdfghderwg wrote: post #127
chadcmulligan wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well thats disappointing

I always found it intriguing that some people can have the discipline to make big changes to their day to day routine based on some learned trivia, but don't have the discipline to actually learn the subject.

That's pretty uncharitable. Celery juice is used specifically because it's confusing and misleading - you shouldn't have to have a scientific degree to decode a nutrition label, but here we are.

Re: The World's Deadliest Thing

#187

Post by gambiting »

Arch-TK wrote: post #95
Stratoscope wrote: post #35

Pop quiz! Do you ever buy frozen vacuum-sealed fish? The kind where each piece is sealed in its own plastic pouch? It is convenient and delicious. To me it can taste fresher than some "fresh" fish. One reason is that the sealed pouch keeps oxygen out. Have you wondered why it says "remove all packaging before defrosting"? And ignored that advice like I did for many years? After all, the fish seems to defrost just fin…

Okay, so in the past we've used a sous-vide recirculator set to 30°C to quickly defrost fish which had been vacuum sealed (dodged a bullet apparently). I looked into it and the temperature at which it is safe to hold food without risk of toxin production is 3°C and less. What high-speed defrosting methods are there to replace this? is it okay to just open the fish for 30 minutes, re-seal it and then put it in the rec…

>>I looked into it and the temperature at which it is safe to hold food without risk of toxin production is 3°C and less.

The what now? My fridge at home is uniformly at 4C, surely that can't be dangerous.

Re: The World's Deadliest Thing

#188

Post by gambiting »

sbierwagen wrote: post #66
baobabKoodaa wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't the food need to warm up to room temperature before bacteria would breed like crazy? If you defrost it from frozen to cold-but-defrosted, shouldn't you be ok, even if the surrounding air is room temperature?

The bacteria on the surface of the meat will hit room temperature in a few minutes, long before the entire piece is thawed all the way through. So it gets an hour head start.

By that logic no one could ever safely eat steak tartare, which obviously you can without any issue. There will be bacteria growing in the surface, but unless someone fucked up somewhere along the way, they won't be harmful.

Re: The World's Deadliest Thing

#189

Post by dkarl »

sdfghderwg wrote: post #127
chadcmulligan wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well thats disappointing

I always found it intriguing that some people can have the discipline to make big changes to their day to day routine based on some learned trivia, but don't have the discipline to actually learn the subject.

Ah, the old, "I've sworn off carbs. I might give up sugar too at some point, but one thing at a time," said while eating falafel.

"Beans can't have protein. That doesn't make any sense. Protein is what meat has."

I have spoken to two different people with no connection between them who thought that beans had no carbs and no protein, they were "different," because carbs were grain things and protein was meat. I wouldn't normally judge people for ignorance, but both of those people used the terms "carb" and "protein" while expressing extensive and very strongly held beliefs about nutrition. They are not much different from anti-vaxxers in my book.

Re: The World's Deadliest Thing

#190

Post by kaetemi »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #73
Stratoscope wrote: post #35

Pop quiz! Do you ever buy frozen vacuum-sealed fish? The kind where each piece is sealed in its own plastic pouch? It is convenient and delicious. To me it can taste fresher than some "fresh" fish. One reason is that the sealed pouch keeps oxygen out. Have you wondered why it says "remove all packaging before defrosting"? And ignored that advice like I did for many years? After all, the fish seems to defrost just fin…

Any people from developing countries reading this thread? What are your thoughts when you hear Westerners talking about the danger of leaving a meat out of the fridge for a couple of hours and stuff like that?

My wife leaves meat out of the fridge for the practically the whole day...
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