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The World's Deadliest Thing

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Re: The World's Deadliest Thing

#61

Post by froh »

antognini wrote: post #38
Stratoscope wrote: post #35

Pop quiz! Do you ever buy frozen vacuum-sealed fish? The kind where each piece is sealed in its own plastic pouch? It is convenient and delicious. To me it can taste fresher than some "fresh" fish. One reason is that the sealed pouch keeps oxygen out. Have you wondered why it says "remove all packaging before defrosting"? And ignored that advice like I did for many years? After all, the fish seems to defrost just fin…

I have wondered about this, but even if botulinum or listeria are present, won't they grow very slowly in the refrigerator? I would think that defrosting for 12 hours or so at refrigerator temperatures would still be fairly safe. Or is the quantity that can be dangerous so minute that it doesn't matter?

Yes, defrosting vacuum sealed fish _in the fridge_ is safe, also in the package, for the next day as well, but not beyond. Defrosting on the countertop (or on the heating) is not, for the reasons GP stated.

Re: The World's Deadliest Thing

#62

Post by Lhiw »

bambax wrote: post #60
turbinerneiter wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I defrost my fish in the package by putting it in hot tap water. You, sire, drastically reduced my chance of dying. Thank you very much.

Do not do that. Defrosting should be done slowly in the fridge. Or you can cook frozen food directly. But do not defrost at or about room temperature, this will breed bacteria like crazy.

Ya'll never heard of a microwave?

Re: The World's Deadliest Thing

#63

Post by baobabKoodaa »

bambax wrote: post #60
turbinerneiter wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I defrost my fish in the package by putting it in hot tap water. You, sire, drastically reduced my chance of dying. Thank you very much.

Do not do that. Defrosting should be done slowly in the fridge. Or you can cook frozen food directly. But do not defrost at or about room temperature, this will breed bacteria like crazy.

Wouldn't the food need to warm up to room temperature before bacteria would breed like crazy? If you defrost it from frozen to cold-but-defrosted, shouldn't you be ok, even if the surrounding air is room temperature?

Re: The World's Deadliest Thing

#64

Post by chadcmulligan »

d136o wrote: post #50
chadcmulligan wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so does ham cured with celery also contain nitrites? I've been buying free range ham cured with celery because I thought it was free of nitrites.

I just listened to a podcast episode about this, basically celery cured just means “naturally found” nitrites… which are the same thing as artificial nitrites… they’re just nitrites. (Disclaimer: not a chemist) https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/stuff-you-should-know/...

Well thats disappointing

Re: The World's Deadliest Thing

#65

Post by dustintrex »

Stratoscope wrote: post #35

Pop quiz! Do you ever buy frozen vacuum-sealed fish? The kind where each piece is sealed in its own plastic pouch? It is convenient and delicious. To me it can taste fresher than some "fresh" fish. One reason is that the sealed pouch keeps oxygen out. Have you wondered why it says "remove all packaging before defrosting"? And ignored that advice like I did for many years? After all, the fish seems to defrost just fin…

Is this really a risk in practice though? I can't find any cases of this actually happening on the CDC's botulism site: https://www.cdc.gov/botulism/surveillance.html

Re: The World's Deadliest Thing

#66

Post by sbierwagen »

baobabKoodaa wrote: post #63
bambax wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do not do that. Defrosting should be done slowly in the fridge. Or you can cook frozen food directly. But do not defrost at or about room temperature, this will breed bacteria like crazy.

Wouldn't the food need to warm up to room temperature before bacteria would breed like crazy? If you defrost it from frozen to cold-but-defrosted, shouldn't you be ok, even if the surrounding air is room temperature?

The bacteria on the surface of the meat will hit room temperature in a few minutes, long before the entire piece is thawed all the way through. So it gets an hour head start.

Re: The World's Deadliest Thing

#68

Post by dustintrex »

baobabKoodaa wrote: post #63
bambax wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do not do that. Defrosting should be done slowly in the fridge. Or you can cook frozen food directly. But do not defrost at or about room temperature, this will breed bacteria like crazy.

Wouldn't the food need to warm up to room temperature before bacteria would breed like crazy? If you defrost it from frozen to cold-but-defrosted, shouldn't you be ok, even if the surrounding air is room temperature?

The issue is the timing. If you defrost in the fridge, it will eventually reach ambient temperature, but that's still safe. If you defrost on the counter, it will briefly be cold-but-defrosted, but rapidly progress to room-temperature-petri-dish.

Re: The World's Deadliest Thing

#69

Post by seszett »

turbinerneiter wrote: post #57
Stratoscope wrote: post #35

Pop quiz! Do you ever buy frozen vacuum-sealed fish? The kind where each piece is sealed in its own plastic pouch? It is convenient and delicious. To me it can taste fresher than some "fresh" fish. One reason is that the sealed pouch keeps oxygen out. Have you wondered why it says "remove all packaging before defrosting"? And ignored that advice like I did for many years? After all, the fish seems to defrost just fin…

I defrost my fish in the package by putting it in hot tap water. You, sire, drastically reduced my chance of dying. Thank you very much.

Put it in cold tap water in the fridge and it will also defrost much faster than in the air, while staying at a safe temperature the whole time and it also won't be partly cooked already.

Re: The World's Deadliest Thing

#70

Post by bambax »

baobabKoodaa wrote: post #63
bambax wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do not do that. Defrosting should be done slowly in the fridge. Or you can cook frozen food directly. But do not defrost at or about room temperature, this will breed bacteria like crazy.

Wouldn't the food need to warm up to room temperature before bacteria would breed like crazy? If you defrost it from frozen to cold-but-defrosted, shouldn't you be ok, even if the surrounding air is room temperature?

> If you defrost it from frozen to cold-but-defrosted, shouldn't you be ok, even if the surrounding air is room temperature

Yes, that's my point. If you defrost in the fridge it's ok. If you defrost at room temperature then it's dangerous.

It's not extremely dangerous. Many people do it every day and don't die. But it's better not to.

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