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The World's Deadliest Thing

the-angry-chef.com

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Re: The World's Deadliest Thing

#131

Post by NikolaeVarius »

traceroute66 wrote: post #111
raverbashing wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We hope so! Flash freezing kills parasites (Sure, it's not an issue if you cook it thoroughly before consumption, but still)

> We hope so! Flash freezing kills parasites It depends where you are. If you are in a Western country, then yes, "sashimi grade fish" equals "frozen". If you are in Japan, then no. Its all to do with the understanding of fish and its handling. In the West its all commoditised, quantity over quality. In Japan, they have a deeply rooted fish culture, a focus on quality and are obsessive over food hygiene. So in Japan…

The hell? Have you been to Tsukiji Fish Market? Its immediately obvious that everything is flash frozen

This reads like some old school weeb shit

Re: The World's Deadliest Thing

#132

Post by nelgaard »

sbierwagen wrote: post #66
baobabKoodaa wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't the food need to warm up to room temperature before bacteria would breed like crazy? If you defrost it from frozen to cold-but-defrosted, shouldn't you be ok, even if the surrounding air is room temperature?

The bacteria on the surface of the meat will hit room temperature in a few minutes, long before the entire piece is thawed all the way through. So it gets an hour head start.

No, it will not. But it depends on the shape of the meat. So if you are not monitoring the surface temperature, go with cold water or the fridge.

Re: The World's Deadliest Thing

#133

Post by [deleted] »

sbierwagen wrote: post #66
baobabKoodaa wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't the food need to warm up to room temperature before bacteria would breed like crazy? If you defrost it from frozen to cold-but-defrosted, shouldn't you be ok, even if the surrounding air is room temperature?

The bacteria on the surface of the meat will hit room temperature in a few minutes, long before the entire piece is thawed all the way through. So it gets an hour head start.

[deleted]

Re: The World's Deadliest Thing

#134

Post by ckastner »

koheripbal wrote: post #129
ckastner wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am somewhat skeptical of this as well. It's not uncommon to hear of someone having eaten something "bad", but that can be the result of many pathogens and with regards to botulinum, the article gives a data point: > In the UK, between 1990 and 2005, there were 5 reported cases affecting 6 people and causing 2 deaths, meaning that you were 15 times more likely to be hit by lightning.

That data is clearly only reporting very serious cases though, since one third of them died. Food poisoning is much more common than lightning.

> Food poisoning is much more common than lightning.

I said as much. The question is whether botulism is more common than lightning.

Food poisoning is not uncommon, but can be caused by many pathogens, for example E. coli.

Given the fact that we have a common illness but very few confirmations of C. botulinum as the cause, the question stands whether this is really a risk in practice.

Re: The World's Deadliest Thing

#135

Post by traceroute66 »

bluediscussy22 wrote: post #121
traceroute66 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We hope so! Flash freezing kills parasites It depends where you are. If you are in a Western country, then yes, "sashimi grade fish" equals "frozen". If you are in Japan, then no. Its all to do with the understanding of fish and its handling. In the West its all commoditised, quantity over quality. In Japan, they have a deeply rooted fish culture, a focus on quality and are obsessive over food hygiene. So in Japan…

I live in Japan and some of this is a bit wrong. 1. All Tuna is frozen immediately after being caught on the boat - go to tsukiji (well now toyosu) at the tuna market. They are frozen and they taste better because of it. 2. There is no sushi / sashimi grade in Japan. High quality fish that you can eat safely is just the default 3. It's true that traditional sushi did not include salmon because of the parasites. If yo…

1. Noted, although I would say I didn't say all fish was not frozen.

2. That was kind of the point I was making. ;-)

3. I guess we must frequent different places, because the only places I've seen Salmon is Narita airport and at combinis. I don't go to 3 star Michelin, but I do admit I go to more traditional sushi restaurants when I want sushi in Japan. That said, even when I have had sushi at isakaya and small local restaurants, sashimi omakase rarely contains Salmon.

Re: The World's Deadliest Thing

#137

Post by traceroute66 »

NikolaeVarius wrote: post #131
traceroute66 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We hope so! Flash freezing kills parasites It depends where you are. If you are in a Western country, then yes, "sashimi grade fish" equals "frozen". If you are in Japan, then no. Its all to do with the understanding of fish and its handling. In the West its all commoditised, quantity over quality. In Japan, they have a deeply rooted fish culture, a focus on quality and are obsessive over food hygiene. So in Japan…

The hell? Have you been to Tsukiji Fish Market? Its immediately obvious that everything is flash frozen This reads like some old school weeb shit

> Its immediately obvious that everything is flash frozen

"Everything" is a bit of an exaggeration.

I'm sure like at all fish markets, there is frozen fish available, either because it was imported or because that's the way it was pre-processed on the local boat.

But to say "everything is flash frozen". That's pushing it. You fall flat at shellfish at a start. ;-)

Re: The World's Deadliest Thing

#138

Post by sdfghderwg »

ermir wrote: post #98
nfin wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how do you know that garlic+oil could produce botulism? I think I haven’t understood what kind of food + low oxygen/low acid + room temperature might create botulism… could you help me understand? I derived that most of those things are animal related, but garlic+oil is not. Thanks!!

The botulism spores are abundant in soil, but they don't get activated unless the conditions are met. The main condition is an environment without oxygen and the presence of proteins, which happen both in sealed oil-garlic containers.

I guess I'm having the same struggle as nfin.

> The main condition is an environment without oxygen and the presence of proteins, which happen both in sealed oil-garlic containers.

This seems such a general condition... in first approximation, sealed containers with anything at home are sealed containers with proteins...

Re: The World's Deadliest Thing

#139

Post by belter »

Just updated my SQLite table of "Things_Wont_Work_With.txt"

..."It has been estimated that in its pure crystalline form, six grams of botulism toxin, about one teaspoon full, would be enough to kill 200 million people. The lethal dose when consumed orally is around 30 billionths of a gram..."

Re: The World's Deadliest Thing

#140

Post by moring »

chronogram wrote: post #89
awild wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On top of that, people should remember that while honey is naturally microbially stable. It is not actively anti microbial. Mixing it into your dish will not make it more shelf stable. The stability is simply because it's too dry for microbial activity. I'm mentioning this because it's a common misconception in fermentation communities.

You’d imagine the fermentation communities have heard of mead!

I remember at least one mead recipe that claims honey is anti-microbial and instructs you to boil the mixture before fermentation. But I can confirm it works without boiling.
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