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Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law

lse.ac.uk

621–630 of 704 posts

Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law

#621

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Bug," in its most common usage, is a large category that includes spiders, insects, and other arthropods. Crustaceans (which includes pill bugs a.k.a. roly polies) are arthropods. So I'm not seeing your zebra analogy.

It's more like saying humans are apes.

Yes, both are cladistically correct, but debatable on semantic/usage grounds.

Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law

#622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what you mean by "interestingly complex". To say we are nowhere near understanding the nervous systems of fruit flies would be a massive understatement. Even for C.Elegans, for which we know the complete connectome and much more besides (and which has a thousandth of the number of neurons a fruit fly does), we're not close to explaining (or simulating) the behaviour of the animal in terms of the properties o…

Are you suggesting I should feel bad about squishing fruit flies?

You should maybe feel bad about how much time you are wasting squishing them, compared to using one of those electric tennis racket bug zappers. They clear a kitchen of fruit flies in minutes, while giving you a most satisfying sound as you send them to the great fruit fly beyond.

Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law

#623
post #144
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. The bar for sentience is quite low. It only means that one is capable of feeling sensations. (For example, Wikipedia gives the definition, "Sentience is the capacity to experience feelings and sensations.")

Does an arduino have sentience? It can certainly sense stuff via its gpio pins. As for "feelings", I don't know, would having a state machine that transitions between "happy" and "sad" based on gpio inputs count?

> Does an arduino have sentience?

Not yet..

Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law

#624
post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funfact you didn't want to know today: Figs are technically not vegan (nor vegetarian) as during the (highly complex) pollination process some fig-wasps have a wild time in the fruit, where eventually some of the wasps die and get absorbed by the fruit.

The wasp is completely digested. You're no more eating a wasp when eating a fig, than you are eating grass when eating beef.

Hmm ... how does that work? We are obviously not eating cow stomach when eating a steak?

Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law

#625
post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a vegan how do you reconcile the thousands of insects and field animals that get culled during harvesting those lentils? I don't really have a problem with vegetarians but I do struggle to understand the lines they seemingly draw at random. Minimising harm should be a given for all but that doesn't rule out all meat eating that veganism somehow does.

People love to ask me this. One guy said deer are being run over by tractors so as a vegan I’m killing deer. I don’t really see how only eating plants is a random line. As I said in my original comment living in an industrialized society includes some amount of harming animals (for example carbon dioxide emissions harm animals). I’m actually designing a solar powered farming robot for regenerative agriculture so we d…

I can't speak for the person you're replying to, but some people adhere to a consequentialist worldview, where intent does not matter (or matters relatively little). It's the same outlook that creates the need for good Samaritan laws. I don't agree with it in whole form, but it should be recognized as a valid philosophical framework.

Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law

#626
post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People didn't think human babies could feel pain until the 1980s[1], and commonly did operations w/o anesthetic. [1]: https://www.newsweek.com/when-doctors-start-using-anesthesia...

General anesthetic has been shown to cause brain damage. Surgery on infants without anesthetic has been shown to cause emotional differences in children. There's no good solution. Doctors were weighing consequences with little data.

Do you have any source to back up your first claim? My understanding is that general anesthetic has been fairly well understood for some time and relatively free of long-term side-effects.

Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law

#627
post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The wasp is completely digested. You're no more eating a wasp when eating a fig, than you are eating grass when eating beef.

Hmm ... how does that work? We are obviously not eating cow stomach when eating a steak?

Hmmm...I see you've never had menudo or haggis :-)

(Yes, I know tripe is not really stomach.)

Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law

#628
post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your line of questioning gives me the shivers, because it applies equally to humans. You might be intellectually aware that you're causing someone to suffer, but - unless someone else is watching - why should you care? You say you're "not talking about morals" - what, then, are morals?

(I'm not the person you were replying to but I am very interested in this conversation) There's a specific carnal aspect to eating meat that I imagine is lost on a lot of people, especially when they don't have firsthand experience butchering animals. For me, it was when I was gutting the first deer I killed. There's this weird thing where you become incredibly conscious of the movement of your internal organs when y…

Favorited.

Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law

#629

Will there be a law prohibiting other predators, not humans, from hunting these animals?

That is absolutely not comparable and equates to FUD. In a healthy and normally operating ecosystem hierarchies of animals exist and make sure the ecosystem stays in balance. Yes, there are predators killing octopuses and crabs out there in the wild, but it's not to sell them in underwater restaurants and boutiques for a hefty markup to finance the underwater economy. Every animal that kills other animals, apart from…

Hold it. Apparently, the motivation here is to acknowledge that these animals are somehow sentient; in other words, if any law is passed, it will be to prohibit practices that make these animals suffer. Nothing is said here about depredation of these animals populations. So, IMO, a lobster boiled alive will suffer just as much as a lobster crushed by the jaws of a hungry seal. So, do we need to legally protect them from seals and its horrific hunting practices?

Re: Octopuses, crabs and lobsters to be recognised as sentient beings under UK law

#630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a Swedish expression: nobody is named, and nobody is forgotten. Usually you hear it in a workplace setting when people (often, a subset of the correct group) are being acknowleged for an acheivement of some kind. As soon as you try to enumerate all of those groups you will undoubtedly forget someone, who will then take offense at the omission. So the saying is a reminder to not single out anyone.

cool expression. how does it go in swedish?

ingen nämnd, ingen glömd
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