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U.S. lawmakers call for privacy legislation after Reuters report on Amazon

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. lawmakers call for privacy legislation after Reuters report on Amazon

#61
When reading reports like this, remember that HN commenters frequently try to discredit major news media reports on privacy issues by pointing to news websites' use of ad tech.

Watch for it. It has been going on for years. HN commenters will infallibly comment on news reports relating to privacy issues by pointing to news website use of ad tech.

The question to ask is would this argument have made a difference here. Did these members of the Senate and House consider if a Reuters website uses ad tech.

If the Reuters reporting is factually correct, then Reuters' use of ad tech should not have any effect on the potential for others to take action on the basis of Reuters reporting. As the saying goes, "Don't shoot the messenger."

HN commenters keep trying to shoot the messenger. It only diverts attention from any facts contained in the message.

Re: U.S. lawmakers call for privacy legislation after Reuters report on Amazon

#62
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wyden is the single best tech-related legislator in Congress, in my opinion. A great all around senator as well.

He says the right things sometimes but is often ineffective - why didn't he call out Clapper when he was lying to him in congress? It is up to the legislature to control the government.

I believe either he wasn't sure he was lying, or announcing that he was lying would have broken the Official Secrets Act.

Re: U.S. lawmakers call for privacy legislation after Reuters report on Amazon

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know it's a crackpot theory when it's so unfalsifiable as to be absurd. You think one person--just one person--can manage the data of millions of people, the backups, the government requests, the exporting, and the IT troubleshooting? That's awfully convenient, and I expect you'll never be proven wrong and have to feel dumb for believing it.

The rest of the people work for the government, not the corporation? All they need is someone inside the company whose job it is to keep other people inside the company from finding out. It's the same model as police use for informants and intelligence services use for espionage. It's also kind of pointless to talk about how to falsify a class of thing we have affirmative evidence is happening. When we found out abou…

>It's also kind of pointless to talk about how to falsify a class of thing we have affirmative evidence is happening.

Can you elaborate on the logic behind this a bit more and perhaps explain how it wouldn't justify McCarthyism as well? (e.g. we know that there was a Soviet spy in one office, so every office that acts displeasingly is filled with Soviet spies)

Re: U.S. lawmakers call for privacy legislation after Reuters report on Amazon

#65
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> maintain participation in the digital economy. I think your logic is reverse. There is an asymmetrical advantage for companies like Google and Facebook.

I think you've expressed a US-centric perspective, where the US leads the world and the world reacts. The rest of the world is advancing privacy legislation and making it difficult to do business in jurisdictions that don't enforce similar privacy concepts. This will increasingly become untenable for US businesses.

I think he is pointing out the lack of legislation in the US is a positive for these US based multinationals : they extract valueable info from it, which they can use in other markets too.

An upcoming EU startup which might want to target these multinationals markets is at a disadvantage because they can't.

Re: U.S. lawmakers call for privacy legislation after Reuters report on Amazon

#66
post #59
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original Reuters article[0] about Amazon's lobbying efforts addresses that point. It says: > Amazon said it wants one national privacy law rather than a “patchwork” of state regulations. Asked for details of any federal privacy legislation it has supported, Amazon did not name a specific bill. The company did provide three examples of what it described as statements of public support by its executives for federal…

Thank you for sharing the original Reuters article. In that article it says Amazon helped draft Virginia's privacy bill. So I guess they are making exactly the effort you talked about? But of course Reuters is calling them out on it: "In Virginia, the company boosted political donations tenfold over four years before persuading lawmakers this year to pass an industry-friendly privacy bill that Amazon itself drafted."…

> So I guess they are making exactly the effort you talked about?

> The Virginia law allows technology companies to track consumer searches on their platforms to create marketing profiles. It gave tech companies exemptions to collect and analyze smart-speaker recordings without customer consent. And it prevented consumers from suing companies over privacy violations."

> Seems totally reasonable to me. Amazon already lets you get a copy of your data and you can request for it to be deleted.

Uh, what? Trying to give the benefit of the doubt but it seems disingenuous to call that a privacy bill in a positive sense, unclear what you mean is reasonable about it (though I guess people can disagree on that point), and while I can appreciate strong internal controls that are difficult to codify in law, that seems orthogonal to any of the merits of the "privacy" bill in question.

Re: U.S. lawmakers call for privacy legislation after Reuters report on Amazon

#67

Wait, so Amazon allegedly undermined privacy by spending tons of money lobbying, and Congress wants to pass legislation on privacy. How about passing legislation on LOBBYING?

This is the real problem. All meetings should be public and a matter of public record. We may need some workarounds for Defense/Sensitive issues, but standard conversations need to be disclosed.

Re: U.S. lawmakers call for privacy legislation after Reuters report on Amazon

#68
post #59
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original Reuters article[0] about Amazon's lobbying efforts addresses that point. It says: > Amazon said it wants one national privacy law rather than a “patchwork” of state regulations. Asked for details of any federal privacy legislation it has supported, Amazon did not name a specific bill. The company did provide three examples of what it described as statements of public support by its executives for federal…

Thank you for sharing the original Reuters article. In that article it says Amazon helped draft Virginia's privacy bill. So I guess they are making exactly the effort you talked about? But of course Reuters is calling them out on it: "In Virginia, the company boosted political donations tenfold over four years before persuading lawmakers this year to pass an industry-friendly privacy bill that Amazon itself drafted."…

>In that article it says Amazon helped draft Virginia's privacy bill. So I guess they are making exactly the effort you talked about?

They are not. What you just highlighted is a privacy bill in the state of Virginia. That is not at the federal level.

>Seems totally reasonable to me.

That's fair, for you. For many others, giving "tech companies exemptions to collect and analyze smart-speaker recordings without customer consent" is unsettling, as is the fact that those customers would be "prevented ... from suing companies over privacy violations."

>Amazon already lets you get a copy of your data and you can request for it to be deleted. And from having worked there (note: I no longer work there and don't have a dog in this fight), I know how the org ties its own hands and makes things difficult for itself, just to protect customer data and their right for that data to be deleted forever.

In your initial comment, you said that, "The lengths that they go to for preserving consumer privacy actually seemed absurd to [you]". Yet the only reason Amazon lets you get a copy of your data and allows you to request it to be deleted is, per the same Reuters article, because the state of California forced their hand on that issue. The article states:

>Under a 2018 California law that passed despite Amazon’s opposition, consumers can access the personal data that technology companies keep on them. After losing that state battle, Amazon last year started allowing all U.S. consumers to access their data.

>Amazon tried but failed to derail the 2018 California law, the first of its kind in the United States, that allowed consumers to request the personal data companies stored on them. The 2018 Amazon document reviewing executive goals discussed plans to oppose the measure, noting concern about its “right to know” provisions for consumers. The 2018 public-policy update said of the proposal: “We strongly prefer no regulation, but if regulation becomes inevitable, we will seek amendment language to narrow any new requirements to the greatest extent possible.”

>The law’s passage was considered a major failure internally, a former Amazon public-policy employee said. An Amazon legal-strategy document written after the bill became law called the measure emblematic of “troubling regulatory and legislative trends” that “caught us by surprise.”

So really, the only reason they "make things difficult for [themselves], just to protect customer data and their right for that data to be deleted forever" is because they're now legally required to. If they truly went to "absurd" lengths to protect consumer privacy, this obvious option should've been something they offered to consumers beforehand and not something that "caught [them] by surprise", which is a phrase taken from an actual internal Amazon document. Instead, they fought against it and consider the fact that they had to give consumers this option to be a "major failure".

Re: U.S. lawmakers call for privacy legislation after Reuters report on Amazon

#69
post #8

Despite the day to day situation in congress, it seems inevitable that in the short to mid term, the US will have to stand up new privacy legislation in order to maintain participation in the digital economy. The question will be how they define privacy, and who will write the law. If activism doesn't interest you and you're looking for a reasonable shortcut, follow the work/proposals of Sen. Ron Wyden. He employs ac…

So right: "This is now the classic Big Tech move: deploy money and armies of lobbyists to fight meaningful reforms in the shadows but claim to support them publicly."

Re: U.S. lawmakers call for privacy legislation after Reuters report on Amazon

#70

A reminder that no one's making you use Amazon, especially the Alexa stuff. I invested in Mycroft to try and kickstart a privacy-focused alternative; the hardware isn't there yet but they've made good strides on the software side. You can invest too! https://www.startengine.com/mycroftai Make the world we want to live in.

Or just leave the US and stop participating in this failed experiment.

You can’t make things better when half the people around you are making it worse.

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